Michas Scoble"Sir Alex, you have a lot of years looking for Balta substrate in the Belarusian nation. And what conclusions can you do — on the basis of their research? "
Alexei Dermant"On the basis of a variety of sciences — arhealegii, linguistics, mythology, ethnography, physical anthropology — I can not say that the conclusion of an academic institution geneticist if not correct, it is quite controversial. From those sciences that I have listed, indicate that Balta substrate, traces of Balt heritage of our geographic expanse is very noticeable. This means that just based on genetics, these facts are not discarded. Here, rather, the point is quite controversial methodological basis on which to genetic findings. Genetics — this is pure biology, microbiology is a level which can neither touch nor assess externally. Genetics — certainly experts in their field, but to draw conclusions about ethnicity, they can not. First, they do not have sufficient qualifications to do so. They are, once again, the experts in the industry. I believe that if they voiced particular interest genetic haplogroups, it would be quite correct. But we Slavs or bolts — this is a complex issue that must be addressed comprehensively. So I took that statement a bit skeptical. However, there is an interesting observation from what I've heard, and it has repeatedly sounded in genetic research. Namely, that the gene pool of the Belarusians, we vspadchynili from our grandfathers, has 8 or 6,000 years old, and he had not been, in fact, the effects of the prospective migrant settlers. This means that the Belarusians — autochthonous, pershanaselniki their land. And this, in turn, is in conflict with the statement that we — the Slavs, because the Slavs believed the most advanced theories, there is a maximum in V-VI centuries of the new era. If the gene pool of our autochthonous, that is, that we — not the Slavs because vspadchynili gene pool is much more ancient than the Slavs formed, even the most daring theories. In the 1960s, Russian linguists and Trubachyov ax proved that Belarus is quite extensive Balt gidranimiya. This means that the main population of the territory of Belarus in the ancient Balts were — in the linguistic sense. Those that language similar to modern Lithuanians and Latvians, that is. not Slavs in the linguistic sense. "
Scoble"As the head of the laboratory of this academic institution corresponding member Oleg Davydenko, studies were carried out in 2005-2006. Why is genetics of publication of its findings waited five years? "
Dermant"I guess there is not really a scientific context plays a role. You may have noticed that in a society, in the forums, both scientific and popular science, is an active discussion on this topic. Moreover, the predominant voice, which indicate for what Balta substrate indeed fundamental to the Belarusian nation. Perhaps with this in mind, someone felt the need to voice the opposite view, namely, to cancel the participation version of the Balts. But in reality is not so simple. One does not cancel it by genetics, especially genetic findings do require a correction is from a methodological point of view. Questions ethnicity geneticist would never dare. "
Scoble"Either you connect statement geneticist with the political situation, with elections to be held in December?"
Dermant"I can not imagine directly, but — perhaps. Again, if we bear in mind the context of foreign policy, which takes place between Belarus and Russia may be preparing the ground for the statement that all Slavs immigrants from Belarus. This means that the Russians — our little brothers. "
Scoble"Belarus — the ancestral home of the Slavs?"
Dermant"Something like that."
Scoble"It would seem that, with the help of genetics is difficult to manipulate the public consciousness. It is very difficult science. Why is power so closely monitors genetic research? "
Dermant"I think there's something kind of magical effect. For Commonwealth mind the word "genetics" has an aura of magic. Like, sitting scientists who know more than the Commonwealth people and broadcast irrefutable truth from their pulpits, or in its publications. But science — it is an eternal becoming, there is no single accepted truth. As in the story, and in genetytsy. Constantly there is a development, scientific knowledge is adjusted, altered, added. Why the authorities, and not only for us, it can be seen almost all over Europe, such interest to ethnic issues? Because ethnicity affect the ideological schemes that prevail in any given society. Consider this for our example. If you are developing a kind of Balt threads means for Belarusians Commonwealth minds converge with the Balts, with the Baltic region. Hence the geopolitical, civilization and cultural context, that is, the Belarusians have a little break away from the Slavic context of the Orthodox. And this is a question of ideology. And here is the science works as a tool for the manipulation of public consciousness. When they announced that we — the Slavs, then there is no historical, ethnic ties with Lithuania, Latvia, and we have to move closer to our real family — the Russians.
In fact, the science is irrelevant, it is the ideological and political speculation on the ethnic theme. "
Scoble"In Soviet times, geneticists have tried very carefully controlled. For example, back in 1973 in Minsk was banned international conference "ethnogenesis Belarusians." Why? It might sound a certain unfavorable facts for the government? "
Dermant"So-so. The fact is that on the eve of the planned conference, Russian linguists published a study which found a massive expansion of Balt hydronymy in Belarus. Then archaeologist Sedov in a number of publications produced his theory Baltic a substrate, where the data used linguists, anthropologist, their achievements and actually came to the conclusion that indeed the ancient inhabitants of our land were Balts. Then came the Slavs, as a result of assimilation have Belarusians etnavyznachalnyya the main features of which are in the language, ethnography descended from the Balts. And in what was then the Belarus emerged strongly opposed this theory, the party leaders and scholars who came before his court. It was decided to convene a conference in Minsk in 1973 — in order to challenge the Balta substrate. We invited the best specialists in various disciplines from all over the Soviet Union. Experts sent the thesis that it turned out that they actually confirmed subversive theory and, moreover, it further developed. When it saw then ideology, the conference decided to ban, but a collection of abstracts — to destroy. And now just a few preserved specimens of this collection. "
Scoble"Is it true that you mentioned Sedov also abandoned its previous version about the Baltic a substrate?"
Dermant"Yes, he's in recent years began to gravitate toward more Slavophilic scheme. In its buildings Slavic mass migration was having the character of colonization, and the evidence base remains very shaky. Based on a pair of found things that could just be the import or the spoils of war, Sedov make their own conclusions. If these things are in line with the Danube, then, a wave of immigrants came from the Danube … From a purely scientific point of view, this methodology is questionable. On the b
asis of only the material culture and the individual finds to talk about the mass migration is not necessary. "
Scoble"Five years ago there was a book by Alexei Mikulic" Belarusians in genetic space. " It states that 3.5 millennium Belarusians will not migrate that 140 generations of our ancestors still live on this earth. On this basis, no mixing of ethnic groups was not? Whence then Balta substrate? "
Dermant"Alex Mikulic — anthropologist and geneticist who deals with this problem for about 40 years. His observations and conclusions can be trusted. And Mikulic, and the latest genetics research, which we have talked about today, agree on one thing: Belarusians vspadchynili very ancient gene pool and are the direct descendants of pershanaselnikav the province. And then start the interpretation: who were the pershanaselniki — bolts or Slavs? My view on the issue is this. Indeed, this ancient gene pool associated with the first indaevrapeytsami. Of these indaevrapeytsav as the most archaic part, highlighted the bolts that are in a relatively undisturbed state sometime before the first millennium AD. Then, throughout Eastern Europe, there are complex processes — the ethnic, cultural, and civilizational. And at the same time, there is a formation of Slavic Cultures, Slavic tribes. But how did it happen? Were the mass migration? Genetics says that — no. But changing culture, changing the language. How could this happen? It could be as follows. The very material culture can lay the influence of different regions. It is obvious to us that affected southern culture. Then there are the city. There are flocking migrants who talk in different languages. The language of "ethnic" dialogue while becoming one of the Slavic dialects, as they are more simple — unlike Balt archaic dialects, they can negotiate more people. Accordingly, from that time expanded along with the written language and Christianity on the outskirts of the village. The interaction is formed such a speech that combines features of both Balta and Slavic, and in the culture of the population is dominated and kept BALTa features. This means that the process can not be represented as slavyanizatsii exclusively colonization, mass migration. It's more of a slow change of language, culture and identity, while maintaining a very ancient gene pool. "
Scoble"All of what you say should have been reflected in the collective memory of the people — in the folklore and place names in the language."
Dermant"It was reflected. Let's start with the language of land and water. Across the north-west of Belarus expanded placenames "Antanishki", "Rusalishki", "Zhvirblishki." A suffix "-ishki" is typical of Baltic. Then — antrapanimiya. In the last names of Belarusians remained BALTa features. Such Belarusian names ending with "Enya" as "Kovalenya", "Stsepanenya" — typically Balta, they are in the modern Lithuanian stored in the women's last name. Or take the mythology, reverence, for example, the cult-stones of tailors that extended only in Belarus and Lithuania. Or take hydronymy: Minsk is Nyamiha and Svislochi. These are also considered Hydronyms Balt origin. Plus, this can be called such a river with a very euphonious names — Esa, Luchesa, Ulla — it is also the name of Balt. Or consider the river Vyallyu. It is believed that the name is Slavic, but the same could also sound in Balt. "
Scoble"So Vyallya in Lithuania — Nerys."
Dermant"The fact that Lithuania is more a Western Balt name, and we have — east. One also has to take account of this. "
Scoble"The Belarusian leader has repeatedly said that the Belarusians and Russians — one people. Recently, it began to repeat and Russian leaders. How long will continue to gamble on genealogies of nations? "
Dermant"As long as there is a political expediency in similar findings. Sorry. And not to depend on such speculation, you just need to be interested in the sciences, do not listen to the ideology, not up to the slogans, and — look to themselves, to their own land. We have to see what our costumes, songs that have tongue of land and water. Finally — compare guise — Belarusians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Russian, Polish. And it's convincing any slogans. "