Society last week there have been two landmark events in the Belarusian-Polish relations. After a long break in Belarus finally appointed a new ambassador to Poland, and in the village of Old Vasilishki near Schuchin opened a museum of Polish singer Czeslaw Niemen. How to live, live, and going to live on two neighboring country — about this and we are talking with another writer Ales chump who lives in Skidel the Grodno region.
The conversation leads Michael Scoble.
— Ales, let's begin our discussion with the museum Neman. It opened on the budget spent Shchuchyn culture department. And then I remembered how the Minsk and Moscow began to quarrel, the monument to Yanka Kupala on Kutuzov Avenue still has not officially opened. And there have not neighborly relations, and the museum is still open. Why did it happen?
— First a little history. Czeslaw Vidrzhitski, better known as Czeslaw Niemen, about 15 years ago, the journalist told Polish television as he drove Vasilishek. It was 1958 — the last repatriation agreed to by the then Soviet and Polish head of Khrushchev and Gomulka. Why Czeslaw was driving? Parents were taken. They said: "The fact that you ran away from the village to the Grodno — is good, but that you were fitter or turner, and you — the musician. And for tips music — this is politics, and you do not gnessya because you're a Pole, you will break. Burn it with fire is the economy, we are there will not be worse, and you will live and you will sing. " And so they went. In addition to Czeslaw Niemen, Vasilishki today have nothing more, and nothing has Shchuchin. And why now a museum opened … Apparently, not in time, when it was planned. And the very first exhibition of Czeslaw Niemen was held in 1999, at the Museum of Maxim Bogdanovich in Grodno, when the authorities expelled from there Danuta Bichel. So the local cult of "our Soviet Pole" Vidrzhitski — Czeslaw Niemen in Grodno region started to create back in the 90's. For now, just padatsyagnuli Shushinsk power. When did it all start? Even when the game went to Europe. The sanctions that were introduced, then discontinued. Then the Poles became advocates dear and beloved "Fathers Lukashenko." And such was. And when they began to make a museum, it must also somehow finish.
— In Pilkavshchyne in Mjadelsky dagnivae house Maxim Tank. On the restoration of the castle Novogrudskii planned to collect people's money. To renovate the museum you mentioned Bogdanovich in Grodno means not at all. And at the Museum of Czeslaw Niemen money was found. The ratio of the Belarusian authorities to national culture known. But why is this power suddenly need to Polish culture?
— Polish culture or Shushinsk or Grodno, neither the city authorities is needed. Need perhaps some sort of bait for the Poles. Like, you do not have the museum a lot, and we have. And here is another important point. The Belarusian authorities allegedly keen to show: Niemen — our Soviet, the Soviet school. Who's Maxim Tank? Moreover, the Belarusian nationalist, he is also a European, even sitting in a European prison. On Lukishki could write any book of freedom! Find now a prison, and even a military unit in Belarus. If Ponomarenko 1939 inspektavav he got here, he later boasted in Minsk House officers at the banquet: "It is you — he told Soviet officials — here panatsyagali Polish suitcases, and I found a treasure in Vilnius. Because the artist Peter Sergievich — it's not some kind of Marc Chagall with their vaunted Picasso, is a true artist. And Maxim Tank — European poet. And Eddie Rosner — a jazz musician that all black with the New York run rings around. " Well, time to finish Ponomarenko normal in Moscow Institute of Railway Engineers still at the Imperial professors. He came from a wealthy Cossacks just rasplyavavsya with his father in the Kuban and sixteen year olds went to the Red Army. This, too, was a man of Europe. And thanks Ponomarenko Maxim Tank got into range. And who he really is, tips knew all his life, so his house and dagnivae, and no one there will do nothing. And as Czeslaw Niemen, it is too tough Shushinsk authorities, whatever they may say.
— Post the opening of the Museum of the Neman on our radio listeners sparked interest. That's one of the reviews: "In Vasilishki always spoke Polish. In the church there is another plaque Niemen, made by the Poles. " It would seem that, since 1939, been so long, and for the Poles Vasilishki — still "margin"?
— I refer our listeners to Paris "culture" and its editor Giedroyc. In the magazine was printed work of Anne Engelking of Gdansk, which has been here many times in the expeditions, just on the right bank of the Neman in Vasilishki also in the area of about Ostrino to Voronov. She wrote: "We in Poland misunderstand what the Poles in Belarus. We write the nationality, as a surname — with a capital letter, and it is necessary to write a small, since, as we are writing religion — Catholic, Orthodox, evangelik. If you write "Poles in Belarus" in small letters, it turns out that this is the faith of the Polish people, or Catholics. Who has what kind of mind — it's not important, it is a private affair of man. " What happened after the king-father? Who are the "Polish" belief — that a Pole who "Russian" of faith — one Russian. And it will not be further changed, and only grew stronger. Poles themselves are crying that they were deprived of Polishness — wrote their Belarusians and even Russians. Needless to say, our common friend Danuta Bichel whole social life was written Pole. She's gone to rewrite, and she was told the village council, "What are you Belarusian? Not only do parents Catholics, and the name — Danuta. Where did you see the Belarusians with that name? "That's how it was. So who is evidenced, he is right.
— Ales, you're a good connoisseur of this called "kresovay" psychology, especially felt in your poetry book, "If you want to have freedom in the homeland." Do you think that changed the national mood of the people in your area for twenty years of independence?
— Let's go back to the 90s. Then the artist Alexei Marochkin purchased farm somewhere around Miadzel. He told me how one came to him thence men and asked, "Alex, are you there in Minsk near Pozniak walk around. Look, for whom are we going? . " — "As for what? By themselves will, "- responsible Marochkin. — "We know that on their own, feed us, no one will. However, under whom we are under Polish or under the Germans? "Marochkin began to laugh, but the men he dispelled all the fun:" You know, Alex, how the hell under the Germans. " — "Why under the Germans?" — "Well, yes. After all, how many of those Poles. Once the Russians will not, then come back the Germans, because the Germans — the force. " Here's a conversation and a "national spirit." So, the Polish influence and fears we are exaggerated. Republic of Belarus — it is the Soviet Union, because the Soviet people live here, we have the traditional Soviet society. In Italian "fashy" — key chain, hence the word "fascism" and the Mafia — the concept of the master's — "family clan." We — fashy. Rural people — is in a sense the Nazis. And there can be no change. And the so-called totalitarianism we required, it is born. Who's the Boss
? Father. landlord that has to be one. so, the citizens of the Republic of Belarus are different from their neighbors.
— And what role in the formation of national consciousness of the church? Leaders of the church demonstrates its commitment belarushchyny. And what happens in the parishes, for example, in Grodno and the surrounding area?
— A Polish diplomat, cultural attache (I peraprashayusya — forgot his name) in the magazine "Our Faith" published an article. He wrote that the Polish older generation on the former "chair" did everything she could, the main thing — do not give advice completely trample the church. And the more it can not do anything. According to it, now some graves with crosses and Polish inscriptions. And if now the Catholic Church (and hence — the world) wants to be in Belarus, he has no choice: either he will polish the grave, or he will be in the life of Belarus. Russian, he can not be, because the problems start with the Moscow Patriarchate, as in Belarus Exarchate of Russian Orthodox Church, the canonical territory. Therefore, the church can only be Belarus. That's what the diplomat wrote. And then I thought, what he says is still not as a diplomat, as already switched to our side! Where are you, sir, in a hurry? With such a rush could be that the Polish church will not be, and Belarus still will not. Better to let go as is. All this Archbishop Kondrusiewicz lighter. He was a Soviet engineer of me stronger. I'm only up to the head of the design bureau was promoted, and he received the USSR State Prize for Science and Technology. What should I do with the church, where the priests take — Archbishop lighter.
— On the eve of the Day of Defenders of the Motherland Alexander Lukashenko made the nation a unique gift. Onskazal that is willing to use against the army of the people — if need be. The tanks on the streets of Minsk — is it possible?
— When the tanks were on the streets of Moscow, the Moscow to Minsk for what is worse? Lukashenko during his 2006 election shouted, "We'll leave in the forest" Honored Hero of Socialist Labor Byadulya listen-listen and retired — far away from sin, from a fool, from the mentally ill. And yet, I confess, I would not want to live up to the time that we indiscriminately referred to as "after Lukashenko." What does the Lukashenka? Lukashenko — the plural with a lowercase letter. Belarus — a country Lukashenok. When the elections were held — with the carnage in the area — I have to take Skidel sleeve: "Hey, who is after Lukashenko Lukashenko?" Lukashenko in their understanding — this is not a man. And in my mind — a man, a man unhappy, prematurely old, lonely and sick. I feel sorry for him in his own way. And any general tanks in the street displays when he has a star on the shoulder straps promise. Every town were, are and will be, relatively speaking, its Paris Trenches and Sloboda — three local areas, three of the gang and the eternal fight between them and stabbing with corpses. Do you think in the Belarusian army today is not bullying? After all, there is no Latvians and Tajiks? And they do not. Because regularly beating Gomel Grodno, Grodno — Baranavichy, Baranavichy — Orsha, and all together — Minsk.
— So you think that a civil war is possible in Belarus?
— It is not a war but a fight. It's part of life, part of the rural culture — go to the fight.
— Recently, the book Danuta Bichel "Bridge of St. Francis" I read your ironic words: "All of our stories will be good. No one will win. If you conquer the Russians, the Poles beat off. If you win the Poles, they will be for us to fight the Russians. And so to the end of the world. " To this actually happened, maybe Belarus should get rid of its neutrality?
— The fact that Belarus is lost. There were two Land Empire, the Commonwealth of both peoples, or the empire of Poland and Grand Duchy of Muscovy, and then the Russian Empire.
They lost both. Where was present Poland? There, where she was given the Congress of Vienna, imperatarm Alexander and Chancellor Meterniham. On the western border was said and in 1945, at the Yalta and Potsdam — Stalin, Churchill, Roosevelt, Truman and Attlee. And in 1991, Russia was in a state which still dreamed of Jozef Pilsudski, when he tried to steam the empire by the national sides. And so it happened. The Republic of Belarus is a fragment of the Soviet Union, to be useless. The same Lukashenko when he was young, he said carelessly into the camera: "Nick, we do not need it." So, it would not be fighting over this piece of forest to a swamp, 600 by 600 kilometers of the Soviet economy. Several non-Soviet factories so far are of interest. Rich uncle interested in "Belaruskali" (this is France), the Minsk Refrigerator Plant "Atlas" (this is Italy), refineries in Novopolotsk and Mozyr (it was the Germans and the Japanese a little), Grodno "Nitrogen (this is again a little Dutch and Japanese), Zhlobinsky Steel Plant (it's an investment, German). These businesses may be someone else will buy it. Everything else nobody wants.'s so we now have an external threat. Belarusians For now there is no threat from the outside. For us, the main threat — we are. Other threats we have not.