How to integrate the information in the Slavic Vedas with the latest research in the field of DNA-Genealogy

Slavic-Aryan Vedas

Slavic-Aryan Vedas

Research on the topic is a continuation of the study on the migration of the Slavs — Aryan (haplogroup R1a1) and their dispersal from the Balkans and the Carpathian Mountains about 6,000 years ago, described in the Journal of the RA DNA Genealogy Vol 2, № № 2 and 5 for 2009
The fourth part is devoted to the study of the date of formation of Novgorod on the Magi — the river. It is based on the materials reviewed in Russian chronicles sources, primary sources the authors of ancient times, the latest research in the field of DNA-Genealogy on haplogroup R1a1 (Slavic-Aryan) information drawn from Slavic Vedas.

The material is presented in the Bulletin of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy, Volume 3 number 1 for January 2010

Part Four
During the formation of Novgorod on the Magi — the river.

Hypothesis: Novgorod to the Magi — the river is formed in between 4550-3400 years ago, carriers of haplogroup R1a
(Slavs — Aryans)

George Maksymenko

"The greatness of world history is
it is indestructible … "
(VA Chivilikhin)

I. Background

Raised topic today, in my opinion, is relevant in light of recent research in the field of DNA genealogy and is a continuation of the first three parts of this study. I recall in the first part addressed issues Slavic peoples — Aryans on the so-called "golden chain and circle" made his promotion: Balkans — Carpathians — Dnieper — B.Kavkaz — Yu.Ural — India and Iran. This promotion Slavic Aryan together with settling all over Europe and in the Russian Plain has brought to many people the language, which in linguistics outdated concept called "Indo-European languages." It has been shown how DNA — genealogy shows its importance in the archaeological, historical and linguistic research, helps verify and clarify the original sources, which are now rejected by scientists without good reason, as, for example, happened to 'Veles book. " It was shown as arias spread their culture, way of life, the language in the European part of the continent.

Comparison of DNA data — genealogy and other scientific disciplines, the study of "Veles book 'expectations for the restoration of historical justice to the authenticity contained in the" Book of Veles "information and dates of historical events that were much closer to those of DNA genealogy than some data other disciplines.
The second part of the research was devoted to current issues in the Slavic environment: the question of time and place of formation of Slavic culture and faith. As a result, it was found that the belief was formed Slavic, or already existed 7517 years ago, and the place of its occurrence are the Balkan peninsula, and the spread was established by the Aryans (haplogroup R1a1), and the Dnieper Aryans moved about 6,000 years ago when he was the Slavs in the faith, extending Slavic religion from the Balkans, the Carpathians Europe and bringing it later to Asia.
The third part was considered a period of education in Kiev on the Dnieper — the river. Studies have involved material of Russian chronicles (chronology, vaults, listvits, letters), primary sources of foreign authors of ancient times, the latest research in the field of DNA-Genealogy and Slavic Vedas. It is possible to find a correct answer to the question and make a date for the formation of Kiev the following conclusions:

1. Studied Russian chronicles on a particular subject are extremely controversial, which is seen trying to hide or understate the historical period of the formation of the city of Kiev on the Dnieper, the arrival of the Slavs and Aryans period of formation of the Great of Russia. In this case, the bias is seen pulling up all these events as close as possible to the period of Christianization of Rus' and the role of Christianity lead of the formation of the Great Russia, which does not correspond to historical reality and justice;

2. Foreign source materials, including the works of ancient Greek, Gothic and other historians (and scholars) of different times, give us a clearer picture on a particular subject, plunging it deep into the history of many centuries ago, until the XVI century BC But the information of foreign primary sources, along with the Russian chronicles, are by Slavs-Aryans confusing and not always correctly recognized character. This clearly showed PhD, professor A.T.Lipatov;

3. Slavic Vedas, described in the Book of Veles, despite the complexity of perception of the Old Slavonic text and time difference of writing some of the Vedas, provide the most complete and mosaic of events studied period of time, and allow in conjunction with other primary sources and scientific data in the field of archeology and DNA Genealogy more accurately be called the period of establishment of the city of Kiev;

4. Archaeological dating by Tripoli culture combined with scientific data on DNA-Genealogy can confirm the information (data) contained in the Slavic Vedas, regardless of existing in the world of science and the progress of the dispute, that where, by whom, and at what age was presented this information ;

5. And finally, the ultimate conclusion to be drawn from the above, can be attributed to the date of establishment of Kyiv in 1300-s of the ancient Slavic calendar, marking the beginning of its 7517 years ago. Ie Kiev was founded (laid) about 6217 -6200 years (including time spent in the transition from the Carpathians to the Dnieper).

Today I tried the same methods and ways to answer the equally important issue in the life of the Slavs-Aryans, when Novgorod was founded by Magus River. Because this issue is inextricably linked to the history of education is not only the Novgorod and Kiev, and the data reflected in the Russian chronicles, do not give a clear answer, not only by the date of their formation, but also introduce confusion and disputes over the primacy of education.

II. Justification Hypothesis

According to data published in Volume 2, № 6 (28.10.2009) Bulletin RA DNA genealogy, co-authored by Igor Rozhansky and Anatoly Klesov "Haplogroup R1a: haplotypes, genealogical lines, history, geography," chapeau indicates that the diversity of R1a haplotypes in the Russian Plain is placed on a tree with a common ancestor haplotype 4750 ± 500 years ago (Klyosov, 2008a; Klyosov, 2009b). From earlier works by Anatoly Klesov known that the output of the Slavs-Aryans on the Russian Plain occurred about 5000 years ago from the territory of the Carpathian Mountains. According to the same authors haplogroup R1a recorded in Europe from 12.10 thousand years ago, and the intersection of several European branches of R1a give your life a common ancestor about 4900 years ago.

Adhering originally given topic: "How to combine the information in the Slavic Vedas with the latest research in the field of DNA-genealogy? "Veles book" — Veda Slavs "to remind you that the author of this paper has carefully studied the chronicles known primary sources and the Vedas, in which there is mention of the city of Novgorod on Magus River, including the history of its formation. It should be noted that the data contained in the Slavic Vedas, are consistent with the information about the period of occurrence and host-Aryan ancestors of the Slavs (R1a1) on the Russian Plain. The information contained in the Vedas, is one of the consistent (along with archaeological data) obtained in studies of DNA — Genealogy by studying haplotypes and haplogroups identified in the Y chromosome, in the test for this trait of the population. This fact has led to the continuation of the study of the topic on the basis of the information available.

Under the "Slavic-Aryan" in this paper is meant to use, along with the term, common in DNA-Genealogy term "haplogroup R1a».

To substantiate the hypothesis mainly use the same source materials that were used in the study of the date of formation of Kiev:

— Data of DNA genealogy;
— Russian chronicles of the primary sources;
— Archaeological sites;
— Data Slavic Vedas.

What is known to modern science, DNA genealogy of haplogroup R1a (Slavic Aryans) on the Russian plain?

A recent study, as mentioned above, conducted by Igor Rozhanskii and Anatoly Klesovo to haplogroup R1a, with the identification of haplotype genealogies, history and geography shows that haplotype diversity in the Russian Plain is placed on the tree of haplotypes with a common ancestor who lived 4750 ± 500 years ago (Klyosov, 2008a; Klyosov, 2009b). The overall picture presented by them on completion of studies is as follows:

So deepens the overall picture. 10-12 thousand years ago, the ancestors of haplogroup R1a1 came from Asia (probably from South Siberia) to Europe, once — in historical terms — after the disappearance of the glaciers. A relatively small number of their descendants live to this day in Europe, with a train "ancient" haplotypes from the Balkans to the British Isles and to Anatolia. Their archaeological culture found in the Balkans and in the Carpathian Mountains to 7-8 thousand years ago (possibly in conjunction with carriers of haplogroup I). This is, in linguistic terms — "protoindoevropeytsy."

At the same time, or about 6000 years ago, haplogroup R1a1 carriers were actively disperse to Europe, settled at that time in its central and northern part of the Atlantic and in the main haplogroup I and / or its subgroups I1 and I2, and crossed the Carpathians, forming eventually settling wide front haplogroup R1a1, from the Baltic to the Caucasus. This — Pit Grave culture, then poltavkinskaya then carcass culture, with expansion into the Andronovo culture as it moves to the east, in northern Kazakhstan, South Urals, Central Asia. It is because in terms of linguistics 6000 years ago — is the collapse praindoevropeyskogo, the language of R1a1, and the beginning of the formation of satemnoy future of Indo-European languages. Around 4,000 years ago, when the early Andronovo culture, media R1a1, future Indo-Aryans had reached the Southern Urals, established Arch (3800 years ago) and the quaint town 3600 years ago, they left the Arch and the part went to India about 3,500 years ago. Around the same time carriers R1a1, for several centuries lived in Central Asia, as it tells the Zend-Avesta, went back to Iran as Aryans. No wonder that they were called by the Aryans in India and Iran — it seems that this was the kind of self before moving to the Indian subcontinent and the Iranian Plateau.

Go back to Europe. Something happened with the European R1a1 between 6 and 5,000 years ago, and they have almost disappeared, have not been the bottleneck population. Ancient European haplotype is almost gone, and now they are very rare, accounting for the proportion of the population of interest R1a1. Approximately 5000 years ago (according to various sources between 4800 and 5200 years ago) haplogroup R1a1 carriers are returning to Europe, especially in what is now Germany and Poland, creating the Corded Ware culture, she's culture battle axes, she's single grave culture of the late Copper Age and the Bronze Age in Central and Eastern Europe. This — the basis for future Slavs, Germans, Balts, anthropologically — kordidov. Their relationship with the culture of globular amphora (5400 — 4800 years ago) and culture Funnelbeaker (6000 — 4700 years ago) are unclear. Either these cultures were cultures carriers haplogroups I, or it R1a1, did not pass before the bottleneck population and almost disappeared from Europe at that time, or it was a mixed culture of delivery and I R1a1 — the answer to this question yet. But it is clear that a return to Europe, R1a1 was back there praindoevropeyskogo language about 5000 years ago, in the form of already modified dialects and variants. That's it — the continuation of the dynamics of the "disintegration of Indo-European languages." Apparently, the remains of members of Rope culture haplogroup R1a1 in Germany, dating from 4600 years ago (Haak et al, 2008) — this is the same wave. Their haplotypes — the same as haplotypes Russian Plain, central Eurasia.

So, returning to Europe brought back their R1a1 haplotypes from the east to the Russian plains. That is why the common ancestor of modern European haplotype R1a1 — is the central Eurasian ancestor, the Russian Plain. So there was the integration of haplotypes of Europe, from the Atlantic to the Eastern Europe and Eurasia. The vast amount of R1a1 in these areas — a common ancestor who lived about 4,800 years ago. And his daughter branches, formed when the founders of the movements of branches, date back to the basic time between 2200 and 3200 years ago, and up to 4100 years ago.

In the early and mid-to a new era, in the era of the Great Migration, there was another migration of carriers of haplogroup R1a1 in Eastern Europe from the East, and perhaps Central Asia, again to the west, to Europe. These were the Bulgars, Magyars, Scythians, Sarmatians, aces, and many other nationalities. They have once again occupied Europe from Italy and central Europe to Scandinavia. Evidence of this, such as "young" Scandinavian branch R1a1, arrived in Scandinavia in the 2nd century AD, plus or minus four centuries (Table 6). But it was in the single "founder" of the future lines. In most cases migrants R1a1 «brought" haplotype structure mutations, again pointing to the time of the common ancestor about 4500-4700 years ago. R1a1 haplotypes with this dating spread across Europe, and if you do not share them on the branches, as was done in this study, they all converge to the same base haplotype Russian plain dating to about 4,500 years ago (Klyosov, 2008c).

Apparently, therefore, important R1a1 subclades found little, except a few old (R1a1a, R1a1b and R1a1c), diverging from a common ancestor at least 10,000 years ago. Since over 95% of modern carriers of haplogroup R1a1 came from relatively recent ancestor who lived about 4,800 years ago, and subclades will treat this relatively short stretch of time.

This is the story of haplogroup R1a1, story, full of the "bottleneck" of the population, and shows that European carriers of this haplogroup is actually relatively recent relatives.

The reader may ask, what gives us this information and how it relates to the date of the formation of Novgorod. At first glance, nothing to do. But only at first glance, because in fact it reveals a basic understanding of the period, which will be discussed below, and those settlers that arrived at the lake. Ilmen and erected there Novgorod. This information will help us understand how to be faithful to research education Novgorod and first-hand information of what is closer to the true date of Novgorod on Magus River. But it is also a matter of trust to the source and are presented in this report.

When and by whom was created by Russian Novgorod chronicles?

Referring to the Tale of Bygone Years (PVL)

After a long time got the Slavs on the Danube, which is now the land of Hungary and Bulgaria. Diverged from those of the Slavs Slavs on the ground and called his name from the places in which sat. So one came and sat on the Morava river and called the name of Moravia, and another called the Czechs. And here is the same Slavs White Croats, Serbs, and horutane. When Volokh attacked the Slavs of the Danube and settled among them, and afflicted them, these Slavs came and sat down on the Vistula and nicknamed lyahami and those Poles went Poles, other Poles — lutichi, others — mazovshane, others — Sea Coast Dwellers.

Similarly, these Slavs came and sat on the Dnieper River and named glades, and others — Drevlyane because it got into the woods, and others sat between the Pripyat and move and named Dregovichy, others sat on the Dvina and named Polotsk, the river, a tributary of the Dvina , called Polota from her and named Polotsk. Those Slavs who sat near Lake ilmenite, called his name — the Slavs, and built a city and named it Novgorod. Others sat on the gums, and at the Diet, and Sule, and called northerners. And it broke Slavic people, and on his behalf, and called herself mention Slavic.

When Andrew … taught in Sinop and arrived in Korsun, he learned that near the mouth of the Dnieper Korsun, and wanted to go to Rome, and sailed to the mouth of the Dnieper, and from there went up the Dnieper. And it so happened that he came and stood under the mountains on the coast. And in the morning got up and told the disciples were with him: "You see these mountains? On these mountains shine God's grace, will be a great city, and God will raise up many churches. " And they went up on the mountain, and blessed them, and put the cross and prayed to God, and come down from the mountain of which subsequently Kiev, and went up the Dnieper. And he came to the Slavs, where Novgorod is now, and I saw people there — what is their custom, and how to clean and whipped, and surprised them.

Some … well, not knowing, say that McDermott was the carrier, was then de Kiev transportation from the other side of the Dnieper, why, and said: "The transportation to Kiev." If there was a cue carrier, would not go to Constantinople, and this cue reigned in his generations, and when he went to the king, they say, that has received great honors from the king, to which he came. When it came back, he came to the Danube, and a fancy place, and cut the town is small, and wanted to sit in it with his birth, but did not let him live the neighborhood, and to this day is called Danube residents mound that — Kievets. McDermott is returning to the city Kyiv, died here, and his brothers Schek and Horeb and their sister Lybid immediately died.

And after these brothers began their race to keep the reign of the field, and at drevlyan had his reign, while Dregovichy his work, and the Slavs in Novgorod their …

In the year 6374 (866). Askold and Dir went to war against the Greeks, and came to him in the 14th year of the reign of Michael. Then the king was at this time in the campaign against Hagarites …

As we can see from the excerpts IDPs by the period of formation of Novgorod, along with Kiev, not dated, but only limited to the expression "After a long time …". Deserves special mention is the fact that the mentioned first appearance of a field on the Dnieper, Kiev, but the word is not mentioned, but at the mention of the author mentions the construction drevlyan Slavs — Drevlyane Novgorod: "Those Slavs who sat near Lake ilmenite, called his name — Slavs, and built a city and named it Novgorod. "What's the reason? I think the reluctance to show the true date of formation as Kiev and Novgorod. This is evident from the second shutter PVL, which describes the stay of St. Andrew on the Dnieper and the Magi — the river. The author had to show leadership role of Christianity in the "creation of the Great of Russia." We have to lower the general availability of Kiev, showing that he will stand in the future and go to Novgorod double semantic meaning: "And he came to the Slavs, where Novgorod is now, and I saw people there — what is their custom, and how to clean and whipped, and surprised them. "Before that, it was mentioned that Slavs came and built Novgorod, and in connection with the arrival of the Apostle Andrew said about the meeting with the Slavs (Drevlyane) there" where now stands Novgorod. " Ie kind of like in the 1st century drevlyans already sitting on the lake. Ilmen and Novgorod and does not exist.

Follow the information that goes with the cue Kiev to Constantinople, returned to Kiev and die "… and his brothers Schek and Horeb and their sister Lybid immediately died." Interesting story turns out. But behind it all becomes clear and simple. Events are transported to 6374 (866) was, at the beginning of the Board with Dir Askold illegally sat down on the throne of Kiev, which is the beginning of recorded history is the story over the years and a description of the board of the Christian history of the Slavs. Answer to the question when it was founded Novgorod, PVL, no. Just as there is no answer to the question when it was founded Kiev. "And after these brothers began their race to keep the reign of the field, and at drevlyan had his reign, while Dregovichy his work, and the Slavs in Novgorod her." But there is a hint that McDermott allegedly lived in the period of 852, which is specified in the annals of his meeting with King Michael in Constantinople:

"In the year 6360 (852), indiction 15, when he began to reign, Mikhail, was be nicknamed the Russian land. We learned about this because at the same time the king came to Russia to Constantinople, as it is written about it in the chronicle Greek. That is why from that time started and the number of set. "

So Russ came to Constantinople to Michael with their representatives, either personally Prince Kyi?

(I take this opportunity to apologize to the reader for his mistake in the third part by date education Kiev. There I mistakenly said Michael Prince of Kiev. It really is in the excerpt of King Michael who ruled in Constantinople, not in Kiev. )

According to some data encyclopedic "Novgorod on Magus River one of the oldest Russian towns — first mentioned in 859" And here again we see a contradiction with PVL. If Novgorod one of the oldest Russian cities, by checking it with the dates specified in the PVL, it is clear that 852 was already standing by Kiev as Chronicles the stick back this year in the city of Kiev.

Let's look more ancient chronicles. Let's look at a set of ancient Kiev in 1039 as amended in 1037:

The beginning of the Russian land.
There were three brothers, one in the name of the cue, and another — Scheck, and the third — Horeb, their sister — Lybid. McDermott sat on the hill where now Borichev abduction and Cheeks sitting on another mountain, which is now called Schekovitsa and Horeb on the third hill from him nicknamed Horivitsa. And make the city and named it Kyiv. Was around the town forest and forest high, and was catching the animal. Were men wise and meaning, called Glade Glade Kiev from them to this day.
For the same years, these brothers are oppressed and offended Drevlianys and other neighbors. And found them Kozar (Khazars), sitting on mountains of forests, and Kozar said: "Pay us tribute." "

Year, associated with the formation of Kiev and Novgorod, as usual in Russian chronicles are not listed, but is visible in the later substitution of PVL, which states that no life at Kia, and "Over time, after the death of the brothers …" dealt harshly clearing and drevlyans. In the more early chronicle says that the oppressed and hurt Drevlyane, ie Novgorod. Agree that the concept of life with brothers and after their death, it could be a completely different time frame.

Let us turn to the Novgorod arch 1050 and continue until 1079:

"The beginning of the Russian land.

There were three brothers … and were Ratna with Drevlianys and Uglich.

During these times, people of Novgorod, called Slovenia and Krivitchi and measured, and gave tribute Chud Varyag … and if they were in them, and violence worked Slovenia Krivich and Mary and Tschudi. Revolt and Slovenia and Krivichi and measure and Chud against Vikings, and drove them across the sea, and began to hold their own. Slovenia had its parish, and set the city and named it Novgorod … "

Set of Novgorod is clear that no clearing or drevlyans not harass a friend — a friend, but had martial relations with each other. And oppression drevlyan came from the Vikings. Of the Novgorod Chronicle that top Russian land and during the formation of Kiev. But the date of the formation of Novgorod to him in the same silence. Do not answer, and the 1st set of the Caves, the initial set of 1903, and a set XI in Novgorod. In the annals of the answer is not there.

All we found out in the chronicles, in Novgorod, just not certain, that the issue of Kiev. The only thing more or less is not contradictory, is that Novgorod was founded later in Kiev. But how much later — the chronicles can not figure out. The deepest binding can take us only one lifetime, if orient the stay of Paul on these lands.

It should be noted that in the Nikon Chronicle (1208), there is mention of the fact that in the XII century AD certificates and acts written on wooden media and were called "boards": "The prince Svyatoslav Vsevolodovich Novgrad is come in … and Dasha he boards Novgorod mayor ih Dmitreev Miroshkinichy and byasha on nih bez wealth of many." There is information and that the Czechs in the old "board" book called judicial and public records (A.T.Lipatov, 2002). This information postpone his memory. It is useful to us in the studies.


In archeology Novgorod can get our attention several monuments studied period. One of them is "Rurik mound." The excavations in the ancient settlement was first produced in 1901, N. Novgorod archaeologist Polyansky. Excavations conducted in 1928, 1935 and 1965. showed the presence of three cultural layers. Since 1975, conducted a systematic study of the member — correspondent Sciences Yevgeny Nosov. Besides the fact that there was a settlement in the second half of the IX century, this fort, located in Novgorod, discovered two earlier layer of noteworthy our theme. Found the remains of Neolithic II-III millennium BC. e. (4000-5000 years ago) and the early Iron Age settlement, referring to the I millennium BC. e. (3000 years ago).

Itself (top) starts from the fortress mound VIII — IX centuries (1200-1100 years ago), and is referred to by archaeologists Ilmen Slovenia, obviously the name of the lake Ilmen. Archaeological Investigations at the "top" layer of IX-XI centuries, found a significant number of finds of military equipment and clothing Normans, found on birch bark, many princely lead seals, Arab, Byzantine and Western European coins (dirhams), and other attributes characterizing this era. In 2003 the Castle was first detected birchbark manuscripts, received number 950 — piece of writing (presumably several brothers parents) with a reference to the prince. It is noted that the city is predgorodskim first settlement in the area of Novgorod and, presumably, the ancient City of New Russian chronicles. There is mention of a settlement in the Novgorod Chronicle in 1103 in connection with the construction on the orders of Prince Mstislav of Novgorod the Annunciation Church. On this information on settlement can stop. We are primarily interested in dating layers of this settlement, there are only three:

1st 4000-5000 years ago (Neolithic);
2nd 3000 years ago (early Iron Age);
Third in 1200 -1100 years ago (the medieval period).

Note and some other archaeological finds in the area of Novgorod. These include the Code of Novgorod, discovered in 2000, and declared "the oldest book of Rus', thanks to the expedition, conducted under the guidance of Academician VL Yanin, in Excavation" Trinity. " This finding is noteworthy because it was written in fake wooden boards with four pages of wax on which the former owner repeatedly written text, erasing the previous one, for a long period of time. By stratigraphic, and radiocarbon data inline, waxy code used in the first quarter of the XI century, and perhaps since the last years X century. It is several decades older than Ostromir Gospel, is the oldest in Russia, a book with a specified date of writing 1056-1057 gg The use of wooden planks was not only in ancient times the Slavs, but also lived up to the medieval period.

I do not think that, in matters of archeology, we need more in-depth data than stated above. We managed to realize the important thing is that there were three important historical era, the different periods of history, which will be discussed below, and there were some wooden carriers, of which we are to learn more about Novgorod. It further goes on Slavic Vedas, laid out on wooden boards, got her to be known as "Veles book."

What we know of the Novgorod and its based on the data from Veles book?

(The photograph is a fragment of one of the plates VC)

Carefully examined the information contained in the "Book of Veles" (VC), the first thing that I noticed that the topic is being sought to be found in Novgorod VC -3,5,6,9 against information contained in Kiev VC 1,6,7 , 11,16,24. At first glance, it does not mean anything. But, knowing the history of the Vedas, gives some idea of the fact that in the first two Vedas Novgorod did not exist in Slavic history, ie Kiev was later established, referred to in the oldest Veda.

Let's see what we know of the primary sources. Third one Veda (the old days) tells us about the borders of Russia Eurasian. From it we learn:

And it will be Prince Slaven his brother al Skive. It is a time of great news in the east. They decided:

— Go from the ground Ilmerskoy.

And search. For older son leaving senior Ilmer all went to the north. There, the city approved the Slaven. This is his brother, calotte, the sea itself is in its old place is. On them will sit granddaughters Kije — the owner was the southern steppe. Cows are many. There is.
Because time is a great for Seth. Zura those on both sides: from the mountains Daniu Russian. Until Khoprov Carpathian. They decided it is either approved circle. He will decide for them. Also repel enemies all at once, they were doing. The elders refuse delivery of decided.
— Chamber to convene one, to do our land.
So those were the ground for five hundred years, and word for word, opened between Rusichi strife. Feuding over again spent force that is available to each other. Its revival. As the enemy to come to our fathers in the south. It happened to land on the coast of the Kiev sea. Steppes and those flowing again to the north. Quarreled with fryatse, help is on the enemy, it is estimated in calotte. Once they were united in force. Weep for us. This again was ieguny, rightly to Russia to step. This time odes older were not, we have become conceited, when we have.

This can be seen from the Vedas, the Slavs have mastered land ilmerskie after already approved city of Kiev. And there is mention of Prince Slaven in this Veda again: "kind Slaven moved to a land where the sun is sleeping in the night. Horse grass lot. Meadows obese. River full of fish. The horse never die, god was still in the green region. Little forestalled fathers going Ra river is high, separates us from other people. Flows to the sea Fasiste. "

Ie acknowledges the movement of Slovenia in the north to the lake. Ilmenite (Ilmer) from the Sea of Azov. In this case, it should be noted, and the fact that they themselves Ilmer had already stayed on the lake. Ilmer (Ilmen.).

The fact that they (Ilmer) went there earlier Slavs, we will see more of the Vedas. In the meantime, we note that in the Veda, despite the fact that during the formation of Novgorod is not specified, it is clear that Kiev was later established. How many przdnee — not specified in the Veda. We have no choice but to apply only to the later Vedas.


People … was extinct, ilmersky. Hundred roots of our nation, restore, as will come before us to the Russian land. Ilmertsev settled among those because our brothers, we (here)'s still kind of, if armed, guard us from evil things had the same cutting, things "I" what is. Ever since the fire would not have the solutions …, elected prince of polyudye to polyudye. So we're living for yourself, give them help. That is the past. Green or knew, wrought vessels and baked in ovens. After potters were valiant, tillers. Also drove the cattle, or the understanding, and (it is). Our fathers are in fact, kind of evil comes to them … was forcing jump to Lyasiya there live fishing. Rybalov. Bylomu could Passion evasive. So a unified theme of the past. The town was put, Ohnište lay everywhere, on another topic was the cold is great.

From this Veda we also do not see the date of establishment of Novgorod, but we have additional information that indicates direct kinship ilmertsev with Slavic roots of a hundred kinds of joint ancestor, which is significant at the mention of his father Oria, in the Veda.

A hundred roots, by modern standards, a 23 year generation x 100 = 2300 years. But we should not forget the fact that they themselves Ilmer stayed a while in the south and did not immediately moved north to the lake, which gave it its name. From the Vedas number 6 that the 500 years of this period, there was already a joint Chamber.


There came the Vikings. Takes openly. She was a great Russia, or going from midnight, for it did not have a … in the woods ilmerskih hold. There is the house of Kiev, who is given a small part, there sat.
Five hundred years … all the rules all the Chamber. So Gods kept a lot of things. Spoke to yazentsami, Ilmer there was a lot of sedentary ognischanami. So any beast all — vendentsy in the steppes.


In the pore of the Carpathian Mountains to together. There is a solution at the head of five princes. Cities and rural fire eating. Great wind. Were pushed back.
Untrodden by going to Ilmer-Lake. It created a new grad. There remains. Here severgi first ancestors pray these are the families that created Kryn her queries. That Oak root, our bread, Svarog, which creates and light — God is light. God rules — Reveal — Navi, this is ours, pereborovshie force on those sitting. Are good, when it's time to fathers in charge were doing everything …

If I correctly interpret the Vedas, these two, you can make the first attempt to determine the date of occurrence of Slovenia on the lake. Ilmer and erection there Novgorod. Check the outcome of the Slavs-Aryans from the Carpathians is known from previous studies in Kiev — 6217 years ago. Progress towards the lake. Ilmer (ilmenite) took themselves Ilmer preliminary data for 500 years. Ie they appeared there about 5700 years ago. Themselves Ilmer Slavs came to no more than 100 generations later. Or less, but how much less — is not known. Allowing an average of this index, to obtain more precise information.

Give the dates, together with all the findings:
in DNA genealogy — 4750 ± 500 years ago;
Russian Chronicles — 1150 years ago;

Archaeology — 4000-5000 years ago, 3,000 years ago, and 1200-1100 years ago;

Slavic Vedas Ilmer — 5700 years ago, and the Slavs-Aryans around 4550 — 3400 years ago.

"Was the cold is great" — of course, may have different interpretations, but it is known that periodmaksimalnogo cold weather in the northern hemisphere was about 4000 years ago and lasted for three hundred years. To this there are hundreds of references in geophysical studies.


1. Most drop out of the number of primary sources, has knowledge of the appearance of the Slavs-Aryans from the lake. Ilmen today are Russian chronicles, it dates from the period of the event 1150 years ago;

2. Archaeological information according to "Rurik settlement" shows three cultural layers of different ages, which is consistent with the data given in the Slavic Vedas also recognized three cultural periods dating from the period ilmerskoy culture (5700 years ago, according to the Vedas), the appearance at a later time Slavs — Aryan (3400 — 4550 years ago), and in fact the third, the so-called Christian period, reflected in the Russian chronicles (1150 years ago).

3. The data contained in the Vedas, the most Slavic blend harmoniously into the dating of archaeological and DNA genealogy, in comparison to Russian chronicles. What causes distrust of the last on the subject and period of study of historical events.

4. Studied primary sources do not provide a definitive answer on the exact date of the founding of Novgorod, and require more research, both in the field of archeology, and the more exact science — DNA genealogy, which will give a more accurate answer on a given topic and to clarify the above dates. It should be noted that the DNA genealogy has a chance to conduct a more thorough study on haplogroup R1a in the region and to find a more precise answer to this question by tracing how long it took the Slavs — arias to get to the lake. Ilmen, settling on the Russian plain.

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