Mars, Moon, Jupiter, Venus — Russia is the plan for space exploration in the coming decades. Already in November 2011, is planned to launch the project "Phobos-Grunt" to "delivery" of soil from the Martian satellite back to Earth.
On what space projects is paramount for Russia, it is planned to create the lunar range and organization of the expedition to Mars, and that in addition to the astronauts who will fly into space, the director of the Space Research Institute of RAS, Doctor of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, Professor, the Russian Academy of Sciences Lev Zeleny.
— What space projects is now the most promising for Russia?
Russia, of course, wants to do everything, but can not. The Soviet Union was a parity with the Americans, we are actively studying Venus, Mars and the Moon. Each year, the station sent to Mars and Venus. Now, unfortunately, the opportunities we have. Largely due to the fact that in the 1990s was a period of complete collapse. However, even in those hard times, we have to work a few projects, "INTERBALL" for example. After all, are not we all slept.
Today is preparing a very interesting program. However, we are faced with a new problem: you do not want to repeat what others have already done, I want to find some kind of his line. In the 1960-1970-ies was all new, all waiting for the great discovery. It is understood that 50 years have already learned a lot and find a niche, a place where one is going, it is very difficult. Therefore, we carefully select and search for the project with your face. For example, at the moment we do well landers. Well, manned, of course.
In the 1970s, our landers were designed primarily for the study of the Moon. Venus, of course, also has not been ignored, but with Mars was the hardest. Now our program will be based on the direct line of contact measurements of celestial bodies. Of course, much can be seen from orbit, but I want it all to feel, to touch, to measure something. And this is possible only when in contact with the surface.
— The "Phobos-Grunt" is just pursuing these goals?
Yes, this is a research project on the satellite of Mars, Phobos. However, it is not only we want to "feel", but also "scrape": dial samples from the surface and bring back to Earth. We hope that in November, he will fly away.
Following the 'Phobos' plan to launch another "Mars" project, "Mars-NET»: it will be sent to study the planet's climate. We plan to place on the surface of Mars a few small stations that will measure temperature, pressure, wind speed. By the way, the participants of the experiment "Mars-500" recently quite successfully modeled the part of the experiment on the artificial surface of the Red Planet.
Then come the lunar projects, "Luna-Glob" and "Luna-Resource". Also, now we think about and study of Venus, which is provided with the lander. Soviet units already landed on Venus, but it is very high temperature is about 600 degrees Celsius, and the pressure of 100 atmospheres. The first devices in general were crushed and not flown. And the last, which gave the measurements worked 30-40 minutes. This, of course, very little. However, some extremely important data he had collected.
Now, however, need a machine that would be able to work longer. The project is called "Venera-D." "D" — means "long-lived" — a long-lived plant. For its development, we want to unite with French scientists. However, they have their own project that they were going to sell regardless. However, while the project was not accepted, and I hope we can still unite.
— And what about Jupiter?
Among the more distant plans for the 2020s, we project the flight was listed on the satellites of Jupiter. And in this world, all satellites are of interest. First, for example, Io red hot so that it gushes out of the lava. But the most interesting all the same second-Europe. He warmed less than the tidal influence of Jupiter. On top of Europe is covered with a layer of ice, but inside it is heated up. It turns out that on top of the ocean was cold, and it is heated from below, resulting in convection. And this, of course, a very interesting combination.
As for water on Jupiter, it is salty. We hope that there can be some kind of life. Of course, finding it from orbit is very difficult, so we are planning a landing on Jupiter.
However, there is one subtle point: the ice we do not dig for it is very thick, it may not even blow. But there are channels through which the water rises to the surface. If in such a place to sit down, then something can "catch". That it will submit to the surface, of course, immediately die from the cold and radiation, but it is possible that some organics we still manage to find.
— You mentioned about the projects "Luna-Glob" and "Luna-Resource". What are their differences?
Between them there is a big difference, they are quite similar. Just one flight to the north pole and the other to the south. We want to compare the conditions on different poles. By the way, both have found deposits of water ice frozen, and, in contrast to Europe, where it's liquid. If you use two devices, it is possible to carry out seismic surveys and get some information about the internal structure of the Moon.
In addition, "Luna-Glob" — Russian project, and "Luna-Resource" — shared with India.
— And the Moon, too, will be able to "bring" a sample?
No, it is not planned return: Moon also has a fairly strong gravity. When we take away the soil on Phobos, we just turn away and fly to Earth. After all, the force of gravity on Phobos is almost there. Since the moon is much more difficult to deliver ground. Now perfected a technique of analysis in place, and the first lunar missions is no "delivery" to the Earth will not. But in the third, which is planned in the future, we will try to implement smelters samples, but with specific places that will identify in the first flights.
We must understand that we are interested in not the lunar soil (regolith), it is fairly well studied, and the places where stuff gets comets, called volatile. Samples from these sites are extremely interesting to study, but they are not easy to deliver to the Earth. They all require extremely careful handling. For example, they are not in any way can not be heated. It is essential that they came to Earth intact.
— Is it true that the moon is planned to establish the landfill?
About the creation of the landfill until everything is very clear. That is, it is planned that at this place the astronauts will be able to live for a while, but it's unclear what exactly they will be doing there. It is clear that, theoretically, they can spend there some repair, tuning techniques. But in order to establish there the technique, it is necessary to first solve research problems, we are now actively engaged. Moon we are interested in the first place as a celestial body.
I do not deny that some exploration of the lunar expanse possible. It is likely that it will be possible somehow to use the resources of the Moon. Many scholars believe, for example, that the moon-perhaps the most ideal location for the radio telescopes. After all, a lot of noise in the world, hindering their work, and the moon setting clear, and you can get good measurements.
— What can you say about the creation of an international lunar base?
Such a project yet, there are some suggestions from th
e initiative groups from different countries. That is, in principle, the discussion goes. So, this fall in Washington has been meeting the heads of all the space agencies, and discussed there is the idea. However, it was attended by representatives from more than 20 countries such crowd did, of course, will not do. With America and Europe, some negotiations with Japan, perhaps, will be, as long as it is all a dream.
— Most of the experts a little skeptical about the project "Mars-500" …
— They say that many of our projects on the flight to Mars ended in failure, particularly in the Soviet era.
This is not true. In the 1980s, there were many projects to Mars. Something worked, some have not. We was more successful missions to Venus. The Americans, on the contrary, the devices are designed to fly to Venus, were killed, and on Mars, they have landed. We are a nice soft landing on Mars at the time, in my opinion, it was not possible to carry out
In 1988 he started the project "Phobos-1" and "Phobos-2". Then came the restructuring, the collapse. One device is simply lost, but the second is not only flew to Mars, but also very well worked there for several months. Later with him again missing link. But basically this unit half way decided.
But particularly worth mentioning about the "Mars-96". It was a great project, but it is very difficult, even more difficult, "Phobos". However, due to an error the military, which he ran, the machine just did not fly away from the earth and drowned in the ocean. To say that something is possible, it is impossible. Failed launch. It's like the story of the GLONASS satellite, which fell into the Pacific Ocean. But he fell on his poorly done, and what was made absolutely stupid mistake, poured fuel.
— That is basically all the errors occurred because of the human factor?
Previously, yes. But after the accidents of recent years control system is improved. Let us hope that the major problems we will fix. With the "Mars-96" there was, of course, a terrible story. The work of several dozen people just "gone to the bottom." Many of those who worked on the project, simply did not survive the tragedy. But this has happened to us not only with us. Was a project of the European Space Agency (ESA) "Cluster", which consisted of four synchronously working and flying close to each other spacecraft. Launched it, by the way, the same year as the "Mars-96". The accident resulted in the carrier rocket "Ariane 5" unit also fell into the ocean. However, the developers preserved drawings of all the devices, the space agency has allocated money to them. And after four years, they have successfully repeated this project, and so far these satellites operate.
We also wanted to remake the "Mars-96", but we were denied. As a result, the project still did. However, we do not, and the French. It is called "Mars Express", and works since 2002. They have kept the whole concept of the project and a similar instrument composition. Moreover, our unit included three that were on the "Mars-96". So now the Russian instruments 'Mars' work, but only as part of the European mission.
The "Phobos-Soil", of course, is also a problem now: the challenges of landing, shipping, soil sampling, return to the capsule, which is all it should be, flew to Earth to find it later. That is, we will implement the project in six stages. The project will turn out very easy, and none of these virtually none.
— Run the "Phobos-Grunt" is planned for November 11, 2011?
About. It's a beautiful date, but this is unlikely to happen exactly on the 11th. This should be in November, and there is quite a small window, only a week. On a small return capsule "Phobos" is a place where the ground is filled, and there is a place where few are reminiscent of a washer or a jar of caviar flat boxes, which planted a colony of bacteria. These are made different groups. One-Americans did. Other employees, from the Institute of Biomedical Problems. A third colony was made by scientists from the Department of Soil Science of Moscow State University. MV University.
All bacteria isolated from each other. It is planned to test the stability of their three years they will be traveling there in conditions of radiation and cold. If all goes well, we, together with the ground shall find them on the earth, and see whether or not they will survive. And whose bacteria will be more tenacious-American or our.
— There's some special bacteria?
I am not an expert in this area, there are about 300 pieces, each with its long Latin name, but they chose the most enduring. They are testing the hypothesis is: can the controversy of life with meteorites fall to earth and grow. That is the bacteria that is on the earth, having themselves somehow or somewhere got to Earth. Can they survive the journey?
— Is there a possibility that Phobos may actually inhabit someone?
On Phobos no one expects to find some new bacteria. On the Moon, perhaps hoping: in fact there comet fly, in which a lot of organic matter, and, of course, you can find anything. But on Phobos is unlikely. It's small, even if something gets there, it is still a very fast evaporating. On the moon, there are places where it is very cold, and then they freeze.
— I would like to know more about the project, "Venera-D." When will it start?
Plan for the year 2015-2016, but everything will depend on how we agree on the division of labor with foreign counterparts, especially the French. Because they have some plans. And if they will cooperate with us in a single project, all quite considerably accelerated. Since the project turns out very expensive. And so we will be able to share the costs.
— And what will look on Venus?
We, first of all, interesting composition of the atmosphere of Venus. We do not know so well. There are all sorts of horror stories that Venus clouds of sulfuric acid. For us it is a question of how important greenhouse gases there. Which is why Venus has such a high temperature? On Earth, the greenhouse effect is about 30 degrees Celsius, and Venus is about 500. But our world it is gradually increasing. Perhaps the example of Venus, we can understand something about the world.
It is interesting that Mars is a different story: he, on the contrary, lost the atmosphere. I wonder why? What's important? We are studying the terrestrial planets, looking like two scenarios of the evolution of the Earth. One-on Martian type, when the atmosphere is very rare, very feeble, almost lost, and the other on the Venusian when the atmosphere becomes a powerful, dense, with enormous pressure. Where do we go? Or is it better to stay on their path?
— What can you say about a mission to Mars?
It is planned, but for now … I was a big advocate of this flight for many years. Now, however, it is clear that it is very difficult to implement. That is somewhere strategically interesting for us Mars Moon. I want to live to see all the same, it looks like the red planet, but it is not clear how to protect against radiation. The Earth has a magnetic field, we are protected. But on Mars, unfortunately, no.
— Director General of the Lavochkin Victor Hart at the beginning of March this year, said that the development of lunar robotic systems have to deal with? What is this complex, and do you agree with this statement?
It's just such a scientific-sounding name. It is understood that all the time the dispute is: who in the
space should play first fiddle-human or robot? It turns out that the more we know about the cosmos, the more they seem hostile and difficult. Therefore, the general director of NPO. Lavochkin, and says that most problems can be solved by robots, but the word "development" in principle provides for participation rights. There is a dispute, all people have their own plans and interests. There is a manned space flight, the people there have put a lot of effort, experience, and of course they want it to develop. All of what I said, we do with NPO. Lavochkin. My experience is most associated with automatic studies, the fact that you called robotic systems.
If we solve some serious industrial problems in the future. Mine, for example, on the moon thorium, bismuth, or some rare metals, which stocks will be exhausted in the world, it is unlikely that there will be created any new Gulag and cons will be mine, as it was on the Kolyma. Of course, this will make machines. But one has to play the role of organizer, intellectual role. Even in the most complex plant, for example, for the production of chips that have adjusters and adjusters.
— We are actively cooperating with Europe and America. And what about China? Any joint projects are planned?
With China we operate. At the same "Phobos-Grunt" is a small Chinese satellite that we will bring to Phobos, it will be together with our machine to fly around Mars and measurements. In addition, we are working with the Chinese in terms of space weather research. This study of the Sun, magnetic storms, auroras. We have joint plans. But while all this is limited.
— The U.S. is now actively studying exoplanet systems? We plan to somehow work in this direction?
Trick question. In fact, this is the most interesting, the most important thing in general is now in science. It is a sensation in recent years, but we have about this, unfortunately, is nothing. Such studies are conducted with the help of special telescopes, we have none. The work is very subtle. Imagine there is a star in a hundred light-years, and we have to fix her tiny, tiny fluctuations. It's a miracle it all manage to measure.
In terms of these studies, we, as the saying goes, behind forever. Now we can no longer pursue science on all lines. We can produce only simple measurements, and some thin is still better not do it. And if you do something, you have to do better.
— From your graduate students, many remained in Russia?
Someone was leaving, but now the fashion has passed. Now changing work environment, there are benefits for young people. Were less likely to leave. Many work in this mode: working for some time in Russia, and then a few months to go abroad. Then come back again.
Leaving mainly in the 1990s. Now the situation is different. The main problem-the housing. If a person from Moscow, he, of course, much easier to find a job. And if not, then here it is much more complicated. When I was studying, we have most of the visitors just solved the problem. What do you think, how?
— Probably got married?
Yes. When I told this one foreigner, he thought, and said: «High price to pay» («Too big board").
Generally, interest is now science among young people is increasing. For example, we read in the Moscow schools, lectures, open days, which are usually packed hall of young guys. In the group that is going to work in our institute, now 12-man contest in place, and 10 of them-Muscovites. At the same time science and ratings rose.