President Alexander Lukashenko speaks to the editor of the newspaper "Today"
A few days ago I was in Minsk and met with President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko. "Old Man" was remarkably open and honest. His account of the Belarusian life, personal experiences, about the sorrows and joys like a four-hour confession. Readers of "Tomorrow" will be important to hear fragments of this confession, which we intend to publish in several issues of our newspaper.
Prokhanov. Alexander G., in December, in Belarus, in essence, was foiled coup attempt. Going investigations. What is revealed by this investigation? Who is the financial and political sponsors of these events? If any of the sponsors of these Russian companies, the political forces of the elite? As this injury, and it certainly had an injury, distorted domestic and foreign policy of Belarus? Tell us about it.
Alexander Lukashenko.Alexander Andreyevich, at all stages of development, I do not just focused on them, and see everything in real time, in fact, been involved in the operations manual. Arrested about 630 people, including 47 convicted. In total there were about 5000 people. Where acceptable to gang wielded with impunity?
There was a half — onlookers, many people are tipsy. Elections were held, and we have, as in Soviet times, the area — and buffets, and beer. And these so-called opposition cleverly did: they went from October Square to Independence Square, is a kilometer and a half, and shouted that Lukashenko overthrown, the new government, a committee of salvation, the new government and so on. Gawker: "What? Lukashenko not? Here is the new power? "
Police was not there. It was at my disposal, to prevent "interested forces" to remove the picture, which for them was the main thing. Maybe it's my fault: I had to lock them up in October Square and will not let go. Would remove the picture and left. And I, but a few members of GAI, put the police on the street. By the way, the crowd attacked the cops and their legs broken. And what they can do against the three thousand?
Well, when the government came to the house, they have typed 5000. When the crowd began to storm, I'm the Minister of the Interior issued an order to cut off the "head." And when it did, all the onlookers dispersed. Seven and a half minutes was surgery. Everything that happened caught on tape not only surveillance cameras. Journalists of Russia, Georgia, Ukraine, filmed and provided us with a film under investigation. In contrast to the "democratic" America and Europe, we are not one with water pouring into this cold, did not use tear gas, no one was shot, did not break, does not crumble, not beaten. As for "White House" at the time, we did not shoot out of the tanks. We protected by law government building. And if you get into a fight with the riot police, then stick on the back got, of course.
They say: if the next day Lukashenko released all, everything would be fine. Who is normal? With the West? With America? They can not talk. You can not talk to them! They are indecent people: they say one thing and think another.
I feel concerned about this fact: why on the eve of elections, two Ministers of Foreign Affairs — Poland and Germany — were asked to see me? When I was told literally pass that he said there was something wrong. I do not understand the purpose of their visit. What are they going to see me?
Our "fifth column" — it does not the opposition — immediately began to howl, they score so I pick up. I said, excuse me, I do not have any rating. They are still subject to the advance of the visit were trying to put forward: the media should talk less and to use this visit and so on. I told the head of the administration: we visit them now do not need.
"No, no — they immediately — no conditions. We want to come. " I say please. They sat and talked, sweet conversation: we will know about it, there is support …
Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, we touched on the topic of the visit in the conversation, I said to him in Russia believed that Lukashenko was flirting with the West and almost turned the wrong way. What nonsense! We and the West are different ideological views. I ideologically alien to them, man. I can not sing their song, and it is always open and honest.
But today we have trade with the West — 48%, with Russia — 45%. I can ignore the fact that half of the products we trade with the European Union and with the United States? No. Our mutual settlement in dollars and euros even with Russia. We asked Russians: let's move on to the Russian ruble. Why do we trade with the Russians in American? Let's you make the Russian ruble. You want to make the ruble a regional currency? Since then, and here we go: are made in Russian rubles. Kudrin: No, in dollars. We're losing a lot on it, converting the Russian ruble to the dollar, Belarusian … confusion.
Not such a fool and a dupe Lukashenko: the West he wanted to turn around, turn back to Russia. Well, gone tomorrow Lukashenko, the other to the West. So what? Say that Belarus will receive from this? Their needs in the economy we are met by the West and America? No. What we do not, there is in Russia. Not speaking about the past, that all of us — the Russian people. So what's the idiot here as president, will turn the country back to what you need?
Well, they arrived on the eve of the election. Now I know why: to lull me. I never thought that in our country, where the "fifth column" has only 800 people, 400 fighters, we know the names of all of them, they just sit in Minsk, but the money of foreigners, it can happen: this squabble, attempts to attack.
Russian channels are allowed to express our opposition everything they wanted. Moreover, if the election debates earlier recording, this time the nine alternative candidates demanded: 'Give us a live broadcast. West immediately yelled, "Live! Live Now! "I said, well — live.
Next: Lead us to the Election Commission, the Central Election Commission. Entered.
Making sure what this game: they have dozens — former prisoners, and recommended to the Commission. We have by law it can not be done. That is, they do not even have enough people to put into these committees. If we basically came up, none of them would not be registered: they did not gather signatures. Even helped them to collect signatures, given half a million of our signatures to register them to the West did not yelled that there dictator usurped one, nobody. I asked: no bends. Of the 10 one was taken, 9 left.
Have done: To register, gave the ether. And calls the candidates were alone: on the square! Come so far, "The Russian-bullet in the forehead Lukashenko!" I suffered all that I never reproached that I hold the power of government. Only from the West and Russia in the elections was 2000 observers. Russia is one of the friends came to us. We removed the restrictions on the entry of anyone who has even been denied entry to Belarus. Come all: intelligence, anyone.
On election day, polling stations closed in 20 hours. And the people who came from the country, who is coming from. And the crowds at the ninth hour came to vote. I get a call, "Alexander G., what to do? Thousands of people came to the site, want to vote. " Know that this is my supporters. But I said no, no, if it is decided to close the 20 areas — close. And we actually spit into the soul of his supporters, the vote was not extended to 22 hours. About 80% voted for the incumbent. So you should be able to play!
No! Why do we have them, so-called friends, hold back, where the detainees were taken to mean? We would like to clarify: what they are, out of their money? Why change? One of them — Sannikov — was the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs. Second, I had saved from the prison. He was head of the Union of Writers and stole money. Formerly head of a newspaper or magazine — there uvoroval. And the Writers too. I come to the documents on the table. I say, take away, I do not want to see! Not want to see! It is not enough — to put the chairman of the Union of Writers. And at this time he got scared and ran away to Finland. We recorded it and had no right: we need a candidate to five years before the election was living in the country. But he was registered.
So we wanted to know where the money? Russian money is there and we do not pedaliruem this topic, but, unfortunately, it is.
We had to say directly that the security services of Germany and Poland have organized these events. This has revealed the result, the detainees testified.
And the fact that they were allegedly tortured … Until what idiocy can be reached! If it reached me about some torture, no one on the post would be left! In our time, in the heart of Europe! Why? Why!
I'll tell you this case. One activist on hunger strike, I will not eat. So hungry. I report to the chairman of the KGB, not eating. I say that in these cases? You can force feed them. They took him to the hospital to feed. He at once: feeding is not necessary. All told: what drove in what mansions and how to write these programs, both contributed.
And you know what hit? Great West, but officials are on this feed. It's their business! Who declared the European Union, America, they are ready to "fifth column" in certain funds to allocate 87 million euros. Taxpayers' money — to the fund. The Fund slightly unbuckled himself. According to certain schemes through Lithuania, Poland, part of Ukraine the money went. And on these points are people, and as a "fifth column" money will remain around 10%. Why so excited in Poland and Germany, when I said that it was their intelligence to cook? We called facts. Check. Check not want.
And with individuals. Shout killed! Hung up! As Belarusians say, "skradennye" stolen. But here in Germany have found somewhere man, their newspapers printed, photos published it. We urgently required: give us the information. So far, no response. So where are these people?
One of the ex-candidate, who was on parole — they're all on subscription — somewhere to escape. I pray to God that they all ran away! But tomorrow would! But there they do not need anyone. They are not needed here.
Russia has many faces, there are different political forces and finances. Russian leadership, I would say, it's still Russia, and you are there leaders. And if we have such a good relationship and we want to build a single state, you, please help us to money from Russia did not go for a "fifth column". I emphasize that this is not the opposition, and the "fifth column."
I look at the Russian Communists. This opposition, but where the communists said imposing sanctions against Russia, put nuclear weapons around, not even to breathe Russians who support Putin-Medvedev. And our demand: the immediate approval! Denied entry to several Belarusian officials to the West, they are our "fifth column", are outraged: what kind of sanctions? It is necessary to introduce economic to those Belarusians feel like someone should be supported. The opposition in Russia is so prominent. Although the rules are similar acts, referring to the Americans. But this bunch, which is unlikely to have any effect.
It was not easy, though, and nothing happened. But we do science: never lose vigilance. At rest, no one will leave. No one! Easily and we never will. We are clearly aware of this, so we rely on their own strength.
I wish that we know about it. On my knees in front of anyone will not stand. Endure. We were in the middle of the last century, leveled to the ground. When old people see that we are creating with their hands, they cry, saying, "We did not think that, although in some house we will live." And today we are reducing housing, because, except for Minsk, just a year or two people stand in line, and get home.
Priority with us for three five-year plans were exported, shelter, food. With food solved the problem. Since housing is more or less sorted out. Export to work. This is the currency. Prices for oil, gas jumped again. How much to sell sausage, potatoes, dairy products, tractors, to pay for such prices for natural gas and oil!
Sometimes say, Lukashenko and Putin foes. Never been enemies. Never! As we may come across. He said something somewhere. I said something somewhere … but the enemy we've never been. We talked normally, discussing all the problems. The last Council of Ministers — is, one might say, a breakthrough in our relations. We signed an agreement on the nuclear power plant, which is three years, could not work out. Other issues decided. Basically unresolved issues remain. During my upcoming visit to Moscow all political issues with the Russian leadership is solvable.
And not because Lukashenko in the West do not accept, he turned to Russia. Vladimir Vladimirovich, I said, "If you think that we will not build a relationship with the West — are wrong. You are already almost ready to join NATO. And why should we quarrel with NATO and the Europeans? No, we will build a normal relationship. " We are between a rock and a hard place caught between Russia and the European Union: both have suffocated, and they pressured us. Clearly, the fate of this — we are at a crossroads, we have the geographical center of Europe. We do not want to be a dividing strip, and want to treat us properly, and we'll build that relationship without turning either to the west or the north or the east. We are here, this is our land. I want to be understood, and when Prokhanov appears on radio and says about us, I'm in tears listening to it. And the first thing I say is just such people — we are Russian. We are not the Russians, we are Russian people. Remember everyday use consumer proposition: we're Russian people. Are you from this outcome.
Coley said yourself that you — the fourth power, so need some state functions of authority to carry out. I do not know what sense do you mean, speaking of the civil society. If you mean that what the civil society of the West imposed on us that they understand by that? Sounds nice. This is like democracy: the sea of standards and one goal — to bend, break. They have a civil society — another concept that is different from ours. To take just a fraction of what they preach: the role of the opposition. The opposition should be seen in the media. The opposition has its own media. State media, which we manage, the authorities, mainly reflects our view, but the opposition's activity is still concern, and even of the "fifth column" in Belarus, that is, willy-nilly, cover their activities. The media needs objectivity, honesty. This is not enough. And some educational function of the media should carry out.
Prokhanov. Do you think that Alexander G. fairly, Russian media displays the event on December 19 in Belarus?
Alexander Lukashenko.I am a different Russian TV channels look even RTVI. There is in this channel Albats. Here she talks about our events on December 19. Says, they say, you can judge for yourself, Irina Ghalib was arrested, detained and beaten. This is the moment of detention. And supposedly the one on the phone here — they give it to air — calls: "I, — a cry on the phone — were detained, beaten in the face, head, such-and-so, here! Mother peremat "- and a bloodcurdling scream. Then pip-pip-pip …
And in that moment, when riot police began to act, it appears, they Sannikov — is her husband — fled the area, leaving his supporters: got in the car — and run. And our security services, I tell you frankly, their "lead": one car in front, the other behind. Monitored her phone. And it is at this moment, sitting in the car, calls, screaming that she had been beaten. It is recorded that she calls out. After a few seconds on the same phone says, "Mom, you look out there, as to feed a child." And so on. Literally in seconds.
I must say — impressively done: bloodcurdling cry, women swoon. Who in Russia at that time listening, thinking, well … Even at that moment I thought: "What a woman beaten?" Invites KGB Chairman: Explain. He said: "Just a minute, Alexander G., — pick up the phone on your body — send us all." And on my desk — documents, records. I had to apologize to the chairman of the KGB.
And this Albats of this "call" a start, he began: "This scumbag Lukashenko! Here he beat-beat! Here they are in prison hungry on the bare floor … "This paints a picture — horror!
She is convinced that this was true? No. This provocateur. She — a link in the provocation, plays a role. This is — the media? Why do so? This is a lie.
Or "Euronews". The day after the election, I give a press conference on the results, "Euronews" comes up to me: "You have to interview you. Direct connection to France. " I said, "I will speak to you if you tell the truth. Here is the picture, we also shot. " The guy asks me questions in their spirit: "What, you do not want to be Europe recognized?" And so on, as he was instructed. I said: 'Yes, we want you to show the events as, show the truth. " And it is at this moment, when I do interviews, at the channel gets a picture of pogroms House.
Why do not you want to tell the truth, yes, Lukashenko went bad, that defended the government house, that he dispersed the people that 640 people arrested that among those arrested were former candidates … It's a point of view, it has the right to life. Maybe I'm wrong did, and I think that is correct. Because there is a constitution that is the law. Is that wrong, but show an alternative point of view and say that Lukashenko disbanded these people, and some of them arrested when they smashed the Government House. Tell it. But no.
Why lie? Because in that case the media act as a tool of struggle. I'm against it. Even if we are wrong in the Belarusian media and iterate over its statehood, it's because trying to defend themselves, to fight back. We Mr Putin was speaking. I told him, "You know — and you, both Medvedev and others have criticized for what I say. What do you say, journalists and some members? Do you like this system is built: you somewhere gavknut — Zhirinovsky released. You see, he was tired of Lukashenko in Belarus — a dozen years. In Russia it is not tired — twenty years?
Why do I have to respond to any actions and statements? Because if we have a journalist or even the Prime Minister skazhet, you is not heard. When Lukashenko says the same thing, even if perevrut, but you will hear about some things so I have to tell myself.
Sometimes you, the media, or do not want to know, or for some reason do not give to bring what we think. In which role you are acting in such a case? Rhetorically. I for objectivity. Believe me, I've not overly fingered in the media, protecting themselves and their power. This is a small fraction was in my image, in behavior, in my politics. Yes, I am defending the power, I do not keep her fingers spread. Lenin had taught? "Power is worth something, if it can defend itself." And rightly so. They say: "He usurped power." Wait, you guys. I usurped? And I chose the people for what? To me, excuse me, sat and watched as the country is upside down? So we already had. With Gorbachev We meet often, I told him, the main reason for what happened in the Soviet Union, that we did not have a strong-willed person who has carried out his functions under the constitution. After all, in my eyes was the Bialowieza Forest. I would have definitely done what publicly said when voting against the Soviet Union, I would not hit anyone, and scattered around the residence to "Razor", the barbed wire. They are hatched, and if polezesh through it, then porezhesh everything. Drink, walk there, even special communication would not cut off the call to Bush. All democratic. Sit there.
How would people react? Applause!
But you did not. You — the head of state, you have a constitution lay on the table, and, God forbid, what. No one was hit, no soul, no grasses, and act on the constitution, even if you had to pay for it. Are you trembling for his own skin? "How would it be? What would it be? "
I always think that I still have to live here, not being president. In the election campaign, when Kebich since we were elected, it came to shooting, when I was shot on the border with Russia. You remember this? No. I did not even pedaling this topic. KGB said: "Put these documents in the archive." Only to find out where his feet are growing. Now, these people are in Russia. They then came to Kebich — we had then led the race — said: "Come on, shoot your car and Lukashenko. And piled on the nationalists. " This was Svatko.
You think I do not know what private property it better than a draw? Only I have an understanding of private property is private property, created from "pie" when you stood his first penny earned, baking and selling cakes and privatized, stuck from the people — it is different private property. The fact that you yourself suffered in general, and more efficient to. And good, and it'll take care of you.
Example. Deripaska during a crisis to go? The State. Why is he out of pocket is not got a billion and the company does not put that he privatized?
And why would he put his? What if the crisis last? And what business will fail at all? And billions taken out, they abroad. So why do not you save your property, primarily due to their resources?
I look at my old articles and see Lukashenko romantic. Then I created the first farmers. Darted across the Soviet Union, teaching lease. Saw a drunk person: people drank yesterday, and today I heard. I fought and fought and saw really good: a piece of land to a person, it would be ill to work, feed us, and so on. Over time, realized how much was romantic. While in many ways he was right. Everything: our program of innovation — should be put on society, and if it puffs up too, then do not go that way.
What a great journalist in my understanding? You read and you see: he's fighting, he's convinced himself that says, even if he tells the truth out of ignorance, but want to meet with him to discuss the issue. And it seems that if you say the truth to him, to convince him that it is, it will carry the truth. I respect these people, even if they do not adhere to my view.
When we have the election was, I said, let's not ask this, this. I said, guys, we should all be invited. Even if someone hates Belarus, for example, but not a stupid man, he will come see it. Of course, a flash will not give up their belief. But in his heart, there will be convinced. And somewhere in the family, in their circle say we have written, and in fact this is not the case. And it will be good. Because these small shoots go. So I'm always for that no limit access. Let them come, look, see what we wanted to show the world, and carry with you.
Yes, they will not say to millions of people, but for a dozen. They want to see. And going dialogue. I was never afraid of journalists, because he never lied. If today lied sbrehal tomorrow — and confused. And journalists will compare and ask: who and where you are telling the truth? So tell me the truth, stick to one line or shut up. I believe that it is necessary to adhere to the line of truth.
Here is written that I have either 6, or 11 billion stolen money. But if you think the person will say, he thought, yes, the power of thieving. But 11 billion! Stop. It has an annual budget of the country 17 billion. How can steal the Belarusians 11 billion? "Belarus" tractors worth 20 thousand dollars. The cost of its production to 18 income. 2000 make money on the tractor, the salary paid to this plant, it is. How many of you can steal? It's not oil, pumped gas, and metals. We do not.
I reacted to these "messages" quietly. Still not convinced the people that you are in power and you can not steal. Power, they say, she is. To say that there are exceptions, and I was just so — immodest. I chose another position: will take time for yourself. Forbes recently published a ranking of billionaires. Where Lukashenko? Why I do not have a $ 11 billion? Forgery of my billions from the West also came right before the election stuffing was done. I was just a shame: where's my money? Here are they, and have shown that it is — a lie. I start making excuses, people would have thought something was wrong. Although I hope that 95 percent of Belarusians believe that Lukashenko — not a thief.
You know why I can not cut yourself off from the people, and not do what people expect of me? When was the second round of elections in the mid-nineties, it was clear that I would win. I won the first round. But I dropped by 3%. I scored 47%. I did not raise no noise, no one planted — it was gone. And I was told, as in some of the villages and towns of the people voted. I still read these messages, and tears came to his eyes. People over the years were in bed motionless. And man said to his son or daughter, "You Take me to the site, I'll vote for Lukashenko." And then you can vote for the passport relative. To him, "Give me your passport, I'll vote for you." "No, I'm going to vote for Lukashenka, and then deceived." And so people were going.
You understand that you can not bring it? If there is a God in the world — even Prokhanov says that there is a God — he will punish. And he will punish then! If it came down and you elected president, you have to sacrifice. I never will do, so that the old man or old woman sat down and said, listen, we do believe it, and he is turned out. This is for me. Yes it is … How many people do you want? Billions?
The media I want to write the truth.
To be continued