Our meeting was accomplished in his office on the street. Garden Kudrinskaya in Moscow — in the same room, where a series of programs currently filming "The essence of time" has long become very popular not only in the Russian intellectual web, and the post-Soviet space. You can say what goes Kurginyan open, in today's times, people discussions are "in the kitchen."
If you have not been tracking elective operations in Russia, did not watch programs "historical process" and "the Court of time," pobivshih ratings of political talk shows Russian television in recent years, and, in the end, do not read books or articles Kurginyan — which means you do a lot lost. Now someone calls him an excellent strategist, which essentially seeks to unite and lead all levopatrioticheskih movement of. And someone — davneshnim "Kremlin adviser", which in the last presidential election just did not coordinate other staff of Vladimir Putin.
Although he Kurginyan publicly criticizing Mr Putin for liberal reforms in the Kremlin, this man really listened very intently. Back in the 80's he was one of the professionals and advisors manage the Council of Ministers of the USSR and the Central Committee of the CPSU. But ran into a confrontation with the "Gorbachev's team" — because of the categorical rejection of the strategy adjustment, and then suggested ways to bring the country out of the impasse. Kurginyan says that he feels personal guilt for the destruction of the Soviet Union. In the following years, only seeks to correct this historical mistake.
During nedavneshnih elections in Russia organized the so-called Kurginyan Anti-Orange Committee, bringing together a number of prominent intellectuals of the Russian Federation and more aggressively countered the so-called "Swamp" of the opposition. Now, many are convinced that the activities of this particular person is allowed to overcome the dangers of the Russian Federation "color scripting."
So it or not, but certainly catchy intellectual of our time Sergei Kurginyan — one of the few people the past 20 years is very impressive defends the idea of one of the ordinary: the path of reform, who was elected the new states in the space of the former Soviet Union — is a recipe for disaster. Geo-political, social, economic, technological, cultural, demographic, and, eventually, to a metaphysical catastrophe.
Close this road there is still a possibility. But for this the Russian Federation (and, of course, including Ukraine) should develop a new cooperative project of the future, based not on chimeras, taken outside (and now, the conviction of the scientist, proven quite dead end), and our unique historical and cultural experience — inheritance, which, incidentally, is owned by a few countries in the world. Only in this way, in his opinion, can be stopped falling into the abyss. And the question is not only about the post-Soviet countries, and the fate of the entire world.
— Sergey Ervandovich now, when elected in Russia passion subsided, you can look at the situation more carefully. How, in your opinion, what happened after the parliamentary elections (and more during the presidential race) — it really was an attempt to "color script", but now one sixth of the land? Or all the same Kremlin deliberately played his game and as of now they say some, lowered a little over the reins of the liberal opposition (including giving it to, say, some signals about his own "weakness" and Tipo conflict "tandem"), so only mobilized the electorate? So that, for example, to get a win in the first round.
— Always after the fact so to clarify the situation. How annoying would it sounds, but the games are not played Kremlin. On the contrary, what started to unfold in these months, it was a real shock to many out there. And this shock paralyzed the action of many structures. First major television channels that could be seen firsthand. They're all for some reason in a moment silent. Fell into a stupor, even the law enforcement system. Most importantly, at the absolute domination of the enemy on the web, the main TV channels, the main resource of information and propaganda authorities were not ready. And I would argue that they were paralyzed by someone.
Remember, for example, the situation when Georgia attacked South Ossetia. At that moment, counter-propaganda machine worked, and worked to complete. Let the rough, but still. We litsezreem only now, in hindsight, that they again kerf — aired documentary films, for example the same "Anatomy of Protest" on NTV, etc.
But by the beginning of information warfare on our television appeared paralyzed. In the web balance of power has been about 1 to 50 is not in favor of the government. Balance all this could only main channels to do with it instantly. But did not. Means someone ran the destructive process.
Finally, another register, which was not fully engaged — it is long and with some fanfare, "Awaken" pro-government civilian force. When they really needed, they simply did not have. So call it all somehow dangerous maneuver Kremlin Only those who have not beheld as it did in fact.
The kitchen of the "orange revolution"
— After all, there is the question why? Hard to believe that your car is not an imperative rehearsed countermeasures, having so much time and experience in monitoring the "color" revolutions around the world, including its nearest neighbors — Ukraine.
— It is hard to believe, but true. In a moment I was asked to come to the friends who occupy speak out so very highest mandatory provision. I went to the elevator and I watch the monologue of a famous celebrity influential circles. And what do I hear? He practically whines: "This is the end!" I say, they say, why are you so worried? There is a political process. Yes, as long as the unknown outcome. On the character says, no, it's the end! the end! And almost beating his head against the wall of the elevator. It is clear that the mass gathering information with a suitable frame make sure the shock effect. But as before surprisingly, that they act on the mind fully competent, prudent people. In this mutate behavior even seemed priklnnyh to power people.
So no one in the Kremlin as a shame it did not sound, no picks so complex compositions, especially when you do not know how it will end. The main feature of Putin's (and in fact it Tipo he owed so wisely constructed all) is that it's indescribable careful. He never does anything for sure without knowing
the result. And this was exactly the situation with a fully unpredictable consequences. No one could know when to come out the first 30 thousand people, and when 70. If 70, the subsequent time may be 170? Hard to imagine how these people behave. And because they would have been tougher. Could go to excesses that can not be paid for any electoral victory.
In general, it was also not expected that those who have all undertaken more, so it's back wave civilians who had no business to power. Backlash began to grow on the part of mental society, as usual, but indifferent young people on the Web. That is, people in general are not related to power. If they had all been associated with it, they would have nothing to do, and expect the order — from mandatory headquarters of the administrative vertical (specifically this is the behavior of people who are associated with the government). But such an order has been received. The same is true that I made after the parliamentary elections internet show "The Game", and was born the year before the public movement "The essence of time." If all of this had anything to do with power, it would look around for power and it would be just paralyzed.
So here are the ones who started the act did so by cry of the heart. In response to the "orange" attack the Russian web at one point exploded, went to movies, played a huge role in the popular consciousness — for example, the campaigns of our opposition to the South American Embassy. Well, it is a popular scandal, when the opposition, caught off guard right at the entrance to the residence of the U.S. Ambassador Michael McFaul, asked: why you go there? And after all this and much more dispersed in the form of rollers, demotivators, quite professional. It did ordinary citizens aged 30-35 years. The attempt to introduce in Russia "color" scenario was unacceptable for them and they gave her a resistance network.
— You, as a leading Russian political scientist and expert on strategies to understand, who paralyzed the government?
— Partially, yes. Through teeth now talk about it. But now I can say one thing in public — the liberal wing of the Kremlin, ie figures who have decided that they can play their game. In general the whole marketplace performance played almost everything under Medvedev. This whole "oligarhoz," as the Bozena Rynska never be at the Swamp not going if he did not get the go-ahead from the big figures of the liberal camp. TV channel "Rain" has funded the liberal wing of the government. All pulses, paralyzing the system made it too. But what is the difference between what we had, and your Maidan? You had Yushchenko. It was unclear who moved. And who moved here?
Or is their goal was to create a complete destabilization of the situation in the country and anarchy (ie, creating the look of your abruptly Maidan), then to seize power in favor of the so-called "Round table" of some "respected" public figures (that's what they suddenly began to seek even during performances). Or back-up plan, which was voiced by Mr. Udaltsov at a meeting with Medvedev: an additional term of his presidential possibilities for two years. That is, calculation for a split in the "tandem". They worked on this split.
Yes, the power to understand that the liberal forces are preparing to attack. They understood that they needed either Medvedev, who himself comes out and sign the resignation of Putin, or something else that could unleash a spiral further and begin to shake the system.
— How exactly is the liberal wing managed to immobilize it, including the pro-government structures, headquarters?
— Of course, someone has to ask for the offices of the belief that, say, is not worth the power to react. What Tipo wisest strategy — it does not interfere. That the opposition will tire yourself, and if you start to respond, then those even more angry.
That's when I started my online show "The Game." On some of them I burned a protest in front of a TV camera at the Swamp — a snow-white tape. It was a very important symbolic step. Other people on the web, in the community of bloggers have also begun counterplay. Although the balance of power was 1 in 50, and we have watched, in fact, triumphant Nazi army, part of the country as a knife through butter. It has been seen that is about to begin dash of "criminal regime" to "the people." The case went all the canons of "color script".
When they gathered on December 24 rally at Sakharov, we on the same day had an alter-rally on the Sparrow Hills. I organized a meeting for the first time in my life. We had several thousand. But the main point is that there on the stage, I again defiantly burned the snow-white tape. C this time there was a civilian point of collection.
The essence of counterplay
— Ukraine, where at one point defeated the "Orange Revolution", a very fascinating experience of your "counter-revolution". At what point was seizing the initiative, how and by whom are all ready?
— After the New Year re-established transmission "historical process" on the channel "Russia 1", where I had the opportunity to join the debate with our characters' struggle for freedom and all the good "- Ksenia Sobchak and Vladimir Ryzhkov. Discussion watched the entire country. Problem was, so as not to block them politely manipulative arguments, and aggressively show them their place. I wish to highlight it, as this is a very fundamental in all counter to the "color scripts". So that's when Ryzhkov and Sobchak left with the transmission, the left is not as victors, but with a sense of deep lesions. They regretted that came to direct public debate. They opened for the first time been given an information battle, and they suffered a fiasco on television.
We need to realize that the web is now structurally changes the whole picture of the political war. Nobody expected that the Russian will not use it on the American model, and on its own, that there is another online army. My organization has played a huge role here, including in size. We have several thousands of people who can work independently and all the rules of the advanced Internet wars. They are "packed" web content and meanings so that our "Orange" in a network environment remained or dropped into the discussion "below the plinth," or just keep quiet.
Untwisted civilian gathering point on. We were flocked variety of businessmen, bureaucrats of the provinces of defense ministers. They urged that they are ready to go to the end, but keep the "orange". And equally unable to gather broad opposition to the so-called "Opposition". I had to step on the throat of his song and call, let's Poklonnaya gather all the opponents of the "orange", including and my ideological opponents. There was a big part of it. The same Alexander Dugin, with whom we have long been conducting a rigid ideological controversy, but I think he's one of the smartest people in the country.
From now on — with a rally at the bow — the "colored" was broken spine. We have shown that we have the spirit, and not in them, it has been demonstrated that there really had gathered strength, reflecting the mood of the country.
— Keeping an eye on the outside, we beheld that all this against "colored" in Russia for some reason you were a central figure. Curiously, while the Kremlin with you some specific dialogue all the time? On the part of, say, "non-liberal wing"?
— I — the main, but that is very fundamentally, the opposition to the Kremlin political figure. Not because I'm titanium, as well as all the others at this point in a moment of silence. It is quite unusual for the position of our Communist Party, which, in theory, was to be the fir
st in a battle with the "oranzhizmom." At the largest "anti-Orange" rally at Poklonnaya were pochetaemye intellectuals — Maxim Shevchenko, Michael Leontiev, Alexander Dugin, Nikolai Starikov Prokhanov.
A beautiful set of people who have language, who have the content item. Many of them have stated about his own profound belief in "Putinism" (because of any promise or simply believing in the mode). But I am speaking, I saw that in the "anti-Orange" coalition gathered as those for Putin and those who are against. I — against as Putin and almost all of what he does in the modern Russian Federation — this is just a kind of slow regression, but did not break the course leading to the bottom of the story.
Apart from me, on Poklonnaya no one spoke. It has allowed opponents Poklonnaya call our meeting "Puting". But since I was the chief of the patriotic figure. This is very crucial since it is one thing wide "anti-Orange" coalition, and another — power and its adherents. The whole game is built on the Yankees that everything will develop in the traditional scheme. On the one hand blunt power, with its clubs and tanks, on the other — "rebellious people" speaking against the "criminal regime". As it turned out, that the people against those who are against the government — flew scheme.
In a very similar matters fundamentally damage the gaming paradigm. People are divided into those who make the rules of the game, those who play by the rules, and, in the end, those who are simply figure. So we acted as those who broke the rules. Do they have the following problems. Our South American "well-wishers" have calculated that if they continue to spin spiral "oranzhizma", then the other spiral — a civilian protest — also will unwind. In this case stronger.
That is overseas "friends" realized — we are ready to turn to the end. Do Maidan? Get anti-Maidan. Yes, we are law-abiding citizens, we hideous conflicts. But if you start arming the people, we will do the same. When it became clear that there will be two spirals, African-American heart could not stand …
Bees against flies
— Sergey Ervandovich, and all the same, have you had so far for a dialogue with the representatives of Putin? Maybe with him personally?
— Some of the people who are now in power, were sitting in my club since 1992, Young was still a boy — just looked like I was doing the analysis, were trained. They came to the club as the lessons once a fortnight. Over time, some of these former boys took a certain position in the government. Later they were pushed. Later, once the situation has changed, there was someone else. These people have a certain reverence for me. Yes, now I try to reproach, as if I run to him and ask him what to do. This, to put it mildly, not exactly.
Yes, I have friends in the elite (and plenty more where available) — after all, we live in the same community. For example, Valery Zorkin — head of the Constitutional Court, who once wrote the introduction to my book "Swing". We have been friends for 19 years. He was the head of the COP, later graduated to be, again, it was later. I have friends like 10-12 people. So what? Yes, they are a certain club, but this group is quite diffuse.
When preparing to bow, specifically ordinary businessmen have invested in all of this. Naturally, they began to break the rulers to whom they could. Since it was a lot of entrepreneurs, and the "anti-Orange" movement had been abruptly than December 10, they, of course, broke all barriers. And we were not able to gather a broad coalition, including without the "anti-Orange" putinists, without any internal consensus with everyone.
What is a broad coalition? We have at the moment for a rally, no political organization does not collect more than five thousand people. Including the "United Russia". And like her — a little. I collect at least 3 — 4 thousand others collect less than 1 thousand and the means to carry out mass action really needs about 100 organizations, each of which are able to give at least 1 thousand people.
Specifically, as gathered and Marsh, and Sakharov. Principal, whether they are paid. The fact that they had to mobilize all those who could, in principle, be reduced to one area. And for the Swamp they had even include exotic options, a mixture of a hedgehog with a snake, from public organizations of gays to neo-Nazis.
We also collected all who could be with us — from the veterans of Afghan war to the Union of Orthodox people. Yes, I can recognize the power we do not interfere. But it did not help us. And that struck a result no one was waiting for us to come this weight — 140 thousand people. It turned out more than it was our proudest of "revolutionaries."
You may ask why the "color scripts" are always working on the numbers? There is a rule that a rally of 250 thousand is capable of doing unavoidable situation where the police and all the security systems already inoperable. Even for Moscow is a complete paralysis of life. Coup forces seek to recruit about 250 — 300 thousand here and say that millions of them. Remember the famous "million" Udaltsov! Either your Maidan. And then what? Ownership is a stunner that highlights the active core. But if there's someone starts to create a counter-core, then what? Yes, it's all very frustrating. This is something that should not be allowed … but what to do — give up the usurpers of the street?
— And yet, why in the Ukraine, these scripts are easy to implement, and you do not? It is the consensus of elites, high-quality training confrontation outside influence? Maybe it was just Russian elite, say, a sovereign, smart, cunning and consolidation, and our not?
— Yes, ours were more than ready. It is clear. But there is another difference. You have a lot of people I have referred to the "small people." How to find them at all, I do not know — "zapadentsy" Greek Catholics, "Bandera". It's your business. I think the whole audience you as before manages the process, maybe more of the president. Although I do not presume to say. The main thing — your "small people", according to my personal assessment, albeit a very nasty dream about the future of Ukraine, but it is important that they have such a dream is. Also there are those of their own — in my view, entirely demonic — passion.
Yea, I read not only open, and closed documents on Ukraine. And he would say that some of these fellows are the direct successors of the 1st out of old Ukrainian nationalist ideologues Shtepa Paul, who stated as it will weaken the Muscovites, it will be completely solve the issue of eastern Ukraine. Yes, let it cost 1 million lives. Even if a third of the Ukrainian people, on the views of this figure will be sacrificed. But all of this is, in their opinion, the usual charges that other two-thirds were consolidated into a modern, created by nationalists in the days of our identity.
Naturally, all this is disgusting. But representatives of your "little people" were going for it to make war, were sitting in the camps and killed. Means, though there is a dream, a passion and consolidation around its own set of values. Albeit very demonic, awkward set. That, by the way, they will now do with his own dream in today's European flabby world — I do not know. But the dream still continues.
In Russia the same "small people" (I do not put it in any ethnic sense) has only deny the Russian content. He has respect for his homeland in general have nothing. No dreams of Russian-ness, no Russian passion in principle. Just can not stand and hold together this hatred.
The last time the design themselves in the "small people", as opposed to the rest of the people, they were again fired at Bolotnaya and
Sakharov. Do not we have dubbed them the minority, they pronounced it. Yes, they say, in the television battles they lose miserably Kurginyanu. But this is because they say, — the generous minority. Some of them called themselves bees, and, they say, because the minority. But all the others, of course, flies. There was another contrast: Dolphins vs. generous anchovies, ie such a poor majority. This here is not even clear what kindling strife. Dehumanization opponent. In this case, against the background of self-congratulation.
My ancestors — the scientists. I come from the metropolitan professor's family. But in this environment, there were never permitted anything similar — the same contempt for their own people, so indescribable arrogance and self-glorification.
— But this is the standard "orange" development. We are, they say, are steep, prestigious. And they — grayish slave mode, etc. Adjoining -'ll like us! Standard advertising and marketing gimmick.
— Yes, of course. But I look a little deeper. They arranged themselves as autonomous makrosubekt. And most importantly — they are such a subject are. No matter how much money they collect a lot. There is a unifying passion of hatred, internal solidarity, class support. And Americans have relied on this class — to put them now more than that.
— But it's a losing card.
— He was dangerous to rely on something else. All flows of funds and positions of influence in the secret service began to operate only on Nemtsov, Kasparov and a similar audience as it was clear — it is somehow controlled puppets. To rely on someone else — meant to let the genie out of the bottle. They could not include all of the game antivlastnogo force, for example broad nationalist movement. It is very difficult in Russia everything is connect with the characters or type Shenderovich Navalny. But there are also specific to Islam. There are other forces that may be included. And to produce, say, "mink revolution" (in the words that have been invented to Sobchak), and "polyester fiber."
Americans are afraid of is completely reasonable to include something here, not counting the forces of destruction. If Ukraine they wish something like a pro-American nationalist countries (and therefore better aggressively consolidated), then there is only destruction. Include some sort of a strong national energy and make it — just fear. And later, in Russia, this power is not cut one, say no anti-Americanism. And because they are accustomed to the force, they include them in the embassy were running a report.
So they did wrong here. Just Our homeland — the largest nuclear country, the only one who can resist them. Yes, Obama — an unprecedented adventurer, but even he could not risk the provocation of civilian war in such country. Myagenko scenario where there is a blunt force, which "rebellious people" clove puts the barrel of the machine, you can work out. But less.
The only thing they did not expect it real civilian resistance, the design of "anti-Orange" patriotic forces capable of autonomous behavior. How have seen that the game came a new factor began to regain back. Since work on the script meant to change. And the Americans never did come, no matter how many of them read as chaos theory and so on. In this case, they are conservative.
I know what they were when Obama showed visuals of news from Russia in those days, he could not understand what it did for the movement of some Kurginyan "The essence of time." What the Essence of time? He said that it is the Baptists or some sectarians? No, this is not no sect.
— In your opinion, how will change the Kremlin's foreign policy under Putin, first in regard to Ukraine? As Putin's entourage in general is ready to engage in the Eurasian Union, and that it will be for the union?
— I think the last shot in Russia rose-colored glasses, and in the middle of the charges against the prevailing intellectual disappointment in the ability to build a loving relationship with Europe, even more so with all the West. Although Zbigniew Brzezinski and constantly insists, saying that Russia should urgently take into NATO and the European Union. All those who at some point begin to think something, inevitably come to the same conclusion: the future of Europe itself, not to mention our (and your) relationship with her under a huge issue.
Our homeland and all post-Soviet countries are somewhat lax place between NATO and emerging constructive Islamic (Sunni) world, helped place the Americans, and, eventually, China. In this configuration, we have, fortunately, again, start thinking about what is and what is still a superpower, what it did for centuries by our forefathers, that there is an independent pole of power in the world in general and global sovereignty.
On this topic in Russia think people like having something to do with power, and surrounded by friends who are related to it. In general, all speculating. But I do not think that the very Russian power in the not to distant time will be occupied with something else, apart from pragmatics. Power in today's Russia there are only out of despair, or under the pressure of events.
But the fact that it is in the coming years, the incident may evolve and change very quickly. However, these processes depend on the weight of reasons, far from the Russian Federation and CIS countries. Say, will either not bombard Iran? If so, with what result? Activated excesses and social grounds. Will it "orange" locked-in some other social groups?
In Russia, the likely next "orange" move, which will come somewhere after the "honeymoon" Putin. And more precisely — a short play on the theme of "the return of the prodigal son." Under the "prodigal son" I mean he changed the Liberals. All of this together, of course, would create a situation where the authorities have determined to act. Matter in what way will these acts — the liberal or neo-Soviet probation — and will be nominated by the various theses, different views about the good, the various principles of dialogue with its neighbors. The result — a variety of projects, without which the dialogue is stupid.
— Apparently, the Customs and Eurasian unions and have the project.
— In the past we were united, including the Ukraine, so that together at some step to build a "symphony of the Orthodox." And then — to build communism. Now the question of unification. It can not only be pragmatic, which try to reduce it. The issue in the project. What needs to happen in the story? Our homeland has labored to this project? Or will continue only with the pragmatics?
Personally, I think even the most myagenkie, the most sensitive means for at least some convergence between us are preferred. Let it not be re-melting glass in a new vessel, and gluing split. Although the prospect unproductive — will not give it the final historical results. But if even the slightest fragments will come closer, the Customs alliance or something else will have vzaimoprityagivat, it is still a tremendous benefit to both peoples. But this must be good to go with the utmost delicacy.
Yes, in today's global constants no radical rapprochement between us is unreal. But the constant change and will change. It will take another two years. The world already is absolutely not the same as at present. These criteria will have to change a lot of hard to do different kinds of elections. Because it's time to pronounce the project. And do it calmly, without nerves, in a climate of trust and, if you wish, a kind of irresponsibility. The latter can not allow ourselves to active politicians of the first rank — they do not involve sufficient trust each other, but are related liability imposed on their official agenda. All heard what they say they are.
A means everything has to happen at t
he level of intellectual elites. This should be a dialogue, not a bureaucrat, business, intelligence, or politicians, and elites.
— Some in Ukraine now say that our elites have long and hard to degrade. There is a perception that they are not only just come off the interests of the people, but the loss of adequate even in the realization of their own interests. Yes, there's still a counter-elite, there are people. Maybe with them and it is time to negotiate?
— As you can see, I'm not so indelicate, so encourage your people to the reconstruction of the new Union. It is now referred to as a call for anti-constitutional activities. All I can do and I'll do it, "knead" appropriate topics show employees you have the proper script and demonstrate the challenges. Europe can now begin to break down, then what will happen to Ukraine? What role it wants to take on, what are the costs? How it represents the future development?
I said not so long ago with one Ukrainian radical. And asked him the usual: if one scenario, your daughter should be a cook or a dishwasher, while the other — a medical sciences with state award, what scenario for you better? It is clear that it is better to be rich and healthy than poor and unhealthy. But if the script is not only the Ukrainian people, and before his elites like that splits asymmetrically, what if they want to?
It's a question of your future, of human beings, their positions, the quality of life. While it seems to me that the Customs and the Eurasian Union — is a pragmatist, a slow and sticky, projects, public until more say, but do not. But if used in the world and remained so on the situation as it is, in all of this swamp we would be with you, and then continued slowly sinking.
But the situation is not such, but will slide down. This is a global process. And in this situation to crawl very soon and will inevitably change and understanding of the world, leadership and universities, and the forms of communication, and ideologies. Now something seems unimaginable, but tomorrow fraternal, voluntary, profound, mutually beneficial political alliance of the Russian Federation and Ukraine can fully take the day or agenda.
Look, even Europe with what utter efforts merged, with pretty deep. And there was not even one language or several of favorite languages into which they have relied, as shared values — what do we now about these values or were in charge. Yes, now the EU can samorasschepitsya — secured on the north and the rest of the cocktail lagging states. But even such an unusual association at one point was perhaps because there was a will. We have the same with you — a unique experience of fraternal co-existence. And now — so a huge amount of frustration division.
Naturally, there is enough of this destruction: someone she warms national feelings, happy and part of the elite, who has tasted the sweetness of arbitrarily ruling on the territories under their control. Our division and warm feelings of our enemies, for whom the most important things to remain as they are.
But there is another wave, and it will not go away. If the peace and order of things in it not long ago changed so constructively, who said that everything will remain as there is and the next?
Ukraine is going to hell on the same track as the other
— What, in your opinion, is likely to in the Ukraine "Orange Revolution» № 2, the reason for which may, for example, be the coming parliamentary elections?
— "Orange team" in your country is very strong, and she never lost. Another thing is that it does not have the historic chance. Her project was a fiasco. She did not delay the Ukraine in the direction in which she wanted. But this group will always exist. Maybe because she has her own project (from my point of view, completely delusional), while its opponents do not. They live like the birds are singing, and ideology in their absence. Although there is almost all due to the fact that they themselves do not understandable Russian historiosophical project: Our homeland if she long yearned to the West, which is still read here!
But the "orange group" is also a huge slack — you can not tighten the Ukraine to the West, if it does not want the West itself. And so in the modern world process the chances of implementation of this plan are zero. A project autonomous state of life in the "orange" no.
More precisely it is, but only in the last "zapadenskoy" group. She is very angrily and at the same time is sparse, and its misanthropic plan "independent" life can not be realized if, there of, even if it will run Chubais. We simply can not accept a million refugees. "Zapadentsev" understands this, but apparently still believe in our destruction.
In general, in the Ukraine in the coming years it will be possible to follow the political swing: the top will take that one side or the other. The fight will be long and protracted. Last radicals will be more aware that there is no chance to destroy Russia. There will be a viscous, Stealther Ukrainian political life in the country which will degrade as it is a shame it did not sound at the moment happens.
— And you have not built up a feeling that our party of power now operates to the detriment of their same electoral and political interests? For example, "forgetting" about their own main promise — integrated with Russia. Due to what she has received so far the support of voters. And now it is rapidly losing.
— What, in fact, her task? Capitalism is built. Acceleration, on the basis of a criminal — so why should he be healthy? And further that: it's either a peripheral capitalism Ukraine will become a member of the world in the same division of labor, as France? But it will not, do not give, and for the role of the periphery do not need a powerful industrial complex, which as you have. What then? We can only obey and three times lower standard of living. Drive of the Latin American dictatorship no one — XXI century in the yard.
So what to do? Crawl: strategic issues are not resolved, the citizens of Ukraine receive honorable right to be nannies and dishwashers in the same Russian Federation or the West. Ukraine is going to hell on the same track as all the others. To get out of it, you need a genius or Teran. Need an indescribable will of the people to change the paradigm of their own lives. But all this while, as would be a shame as it sounds, do not.
Then there is the question of the restoration of a superpower. But this is to a large extent is dependent on the Kremlin. Because your pro-Russian electorate to realize that as long as he can expect only a pragmatic overtures: You can reach the municipal status of the Russian language, joining the customs alliance … a reunion, recreating a superpower — a shame it did not sound. Its ideology from Russian authorities have not yet, and she, too, as before pulling his country into hell. Little by little. Putin is there a gentle slope. If it dropped, it would be faster — a year would dovezli. And even earlier.
— The federalization is able to resolve most of the problems of Ukrainian — as many think. Do you agree?
— It will be profitable to Russia, but the federalization will always come up against the angry resistance of the "little people" who realizes that he could lose the authority to manage the "big people." Means federalization would occur in the criteria of acute political struggle. But who is going to make out? Yanukovych?
Return the spirit!
— In your opinion, how will further develop Russian-American affairs? If you look at the situation with the same defense, they are at the moment in general reached a strategic stalemate. Or, perhaps, Moscow and Washington are in a temporary clinch?
— While Putin's concept of local acts of sovereignty, even in the clinch we do not hold out long. H
ow is it different from, say, my own? For the president-elect's sovereignty — apartment in the house, under the title of "world order." And much as possible to quarrel with domoupravom — the United States — about what kind of flats we allocate. But the owner of the U.S. House and no one else. I believe, however, that Russia and all of us need a different house, I adherent of another global project, where apartments are distributed entirely on a different principle.
So, incidentally, was a Russian Union. The Soviet Union was building communism. Does not matter that under this meant, but it was another global project where our home was building the apartments and dispose of them on my own. If the project continued to work, all now for sure it would be an order of magnitude more comfortable than what we got in the end.
I am convinced that in a strange house we had no place and no. Ukraine and many other places, too, there will not be. And certainly no place for Kazakhstan. Either Armenia, which will have to choose — to be her slave Turkey or Iran. Inhuman world, and a poem entitled "Sovereignty" is now — not for the medium and small states.
That is my vision of the world. And I always said, that our homeland is destined to become a superpower again, and that "the USSR 2.0" — is inevitable. Another thing is that its creation must have a passion for historic, historic drive.
— How did this passion come from?
— This is the problem of the spirit. There are times when people are breaking open, and then they live like pigs, enjoying it. And sometimes when people ignite and want a different life. That's it. In general, the slogan is: "Bring back the spirit!"
— But what you read as irrationally …
— In 1-x, the optimal discourse has completed 30 years back, along with the project of modernity. Because constant appeal to the rationality of late. In-2, in Russia optimally nothing happens. B-3, the problem of the spirit exists not only in our country. That's for you to Poland. In the 50-ies. XVII. She was crushed by the Swedes, and decay, but at one point hit the bell in Czestochowa, wrote about Sienkiewicz, Polish spirit awoke, and all conquerors cleared back home, although at the time.
Or Greece in the XIX century. Byron on the side of the rebels of the Greeks:
Disturbed the dead sleep — can sleep?
Despots crush the world — I'll let miles?
Ripe harvest, and — if I press the rigmarole?
On the bed — thorns, and I do not doze;
In my ears that day, singing trumpet,
She echoes the heart …
Many similar stories. How, for example, has awakened the spirit of the Russian majestically during the war? Before that, everything was neither good nor bad, and later again — and awoke. People — a not entirely rational.
— During the restructuring, apparently, also managed to get up some spirit, he obviously was. But he sent for destruction, decay. And as long as the collapse continues. It turns out that dealing with a process that is manageable?
— Yes. Government — is the means by which people develop their historical destination. If this awareness kill and explain to the people that the government is, relatively speaking, — comfort, savory and nourishing food, and he begins to growl: "We wish norrrmalnoy life" — then, of course, these people lose everything. "Norrrmalnoy" if life wanted Taras Bulba? For her he was burning at the stake? This not want the Young?
That means people in general, "when his desires — food but a dream? Animal, not more. " Segodnyaschy attempt to crush the human consumer society — it is the next step to a tremendous inequality. In this world of knocking the door just a mad idea of inequality, as we believe, in fact, the Gnostic. In the sense that the spirit belongs Tipo only the highest caste, all others like it or not. This idea will be erected as a consumer society extinguish the spirit of all. The main objective of adherents of this idea specifically, in order to suppress the spirit of the … See how these dead crowd strolling around us.
But I suddenly see at the moment among these crowds? And 10 thousand of thousands of young people who are 25-35 years old, they already have their own kids, and they come to me and they say, yes, we survived, survived, but we do not want to live only to himself.
This — our motherland! In this sense, it is. Suddenly breaks through the asphalt so that's a quixotic grass. And these are not isolated instances, but a process. Then it just needs someone to make out.
— In 1990, you ran to the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR, and in your election leaflet (we found it on the web site of the State Public Historical Library of Russia) has been said that money is unfairly distributed between the republics, and our homeland because of that loses billion rubles. But in Ukraine, many are convinced that they were fed a lifetime of Russians. What do you say to that?
— At the moment of this read stupid: if syzveka fed, and now have no means everything is fine and no reason to object. 2nd. This leaflet — a fake, which has long been wandering around the web. It is not my signature and there are no details. What you beheld, — all they could "dig up" on us by our enemies for the cyclopean amount of time. Some people or provocative purposes, or in a fit of passion released here this leaflet. Nothing like I've never read.
Now about my position that I held at that time, if someone brings up the question of secession from the Union of Russian, then, of course, it can scare the bullpen and other reprisals, but if there was a heavy pulse, the main topic of discussion should be the entry conditions from the USSR. We say, you have decided to separate — which means we have to set a number of criteria. Economic — and not only. For example, in Canada a couple of times raises the question of the division of the country. But it was said: "If Canada is divisible, then divide and Quebec."
So here, if we divide Russian Alliance (despite, incidentally, the Helsinki Accords in 1975 that determined the inviolability of the borders), the divisible and its constituent parts. And their people live in them because there is the vision of the situation, and they are not serfs. There are citizens who wish to 1st scenario, there are those who wish to return. There are Moldovans who want to join Romania, but there are Transnistrians who are against. They are citizens who have the same democratic rights as others.
Because if any part of the country began to seek separation, it is not necessary to suppress, this should oppose other civilians energy. Then, perhaps, the process will be curtailed at one hundred percent.
Do not just nostalgia, and the internal rebellion
— Let me quote the famous theater director Mark Rozovsky, "This is a Bengali fire that will soon go bankrupt. Kurginyan — fully Dostoevsky type: not even a demon, and obscurantist with political ambitions, which came in handy at first the KGB, and later the recent Kremlin administration "(" Neutral ", 2.03.2012) …
— I do not understand what's written content — zero. At the time, this Rozovski, looking lovingly at me and sang "When your friend is in the blood …" Now he, like all of the liberal intelligentsia, was filled with hatred towards me. But what he said? Friends Rozovsky has long accused me of what I had to do a "special folders Central Committee," the supreme political exploration party to which — you know — the KGB was afraid to approach per kilometer (which is true). And in general: that blame me, I'm a resident of "Mossad", then they say that I am the chief negotiator in the talks with the Iranian mullahs. But you have to choose: either the KGB or the "special folders CC", or "Mossad", or with the mullahs.
What's on? "Sparkler&
quot;? It burns for 25 years, and during that time they did discussions are.
For me Rozovski — cast a nervous type. Scare him something he is excited, trying to read something, say something but can not do anything. Inherent property of the people who attack me, they have nothing to say. Because either pull some phony flyer or pronounce some words, but when you start to understand the words, it appears that they are meaningless.
I can give you another example: my opponents constantly claim that I failed, for which undertake. Although in any campaign that ended in defeat, I was not involved. At this point I was accused that I secured the victory of Putin. So piss off — either secured the victory?
— Sergey Ervandovich you ended Capital Exploration Institute, later the Theatre School. Boris Shchukin was a director, then entered politics. Why did you leave the theater — was a bit crowded in the director's role?
— Everything was different. My father — a great historian, my mother — a philologist. I was born into a family that is a traditional Russian "mix": father comes from a deaf Armenian village, and great-grandmother on my mother — Princess Meshcherskaya. All mixed Russian power. I grew up in the human capital climate professor's family. When it came time to choose, then I realized that going to university of the same profile that was the parents will determine my fate once and for all.
In addition, my neighbor friend did not want to go any humanitarian or technical university. And we had decided to move into exploration, considering that this is akin to extreme tourism (it beckoned us).
Vpribavok for some time I was trained in special matshkole, which had acquired an allergy to the atmosphere of elitism. In general, mehmat I did not want to go, Geological University seemed to me more attractive. When I realized that there must draw and Kolupaev in the rocks, it was too late. But I grabbed a chair arithmetic. I have defended himself as the candidate of physical and mathematical sciences. Later, while working on his doctoral I enrolled in the Theater School. B. Shchukin. I started watching theater in high school, and since then has not been the year, so as not staged. Shchukin School finished with a red diploma. I had already had, in fact, created his own theater. It was necessary to choose between him and science. I chose the theater.
In general, it appears that the human sciences, including philosophy, I have always worked. But in the Russian time to teach them to the respective departments meant to be a very blinkered dogma. Then there is nothing more dangerous than to develop the communist ideology. At this sulked in power, even more than on dissent.
Well, my house has always been connected with philosophy, he was, in a sense, laboratory, and when perestroika began, we here have formed a research center (the unity of culture and science, by the way, this is my long-standing issue). But that never wanted to — is to be a politician and to sit in parliament. His political activities in the framework starts the collapse of the USSR, I took it for a certain purpose, because I thought that of the collapse of world catastrophe. Beheld himself as some kind of sderzhivatelem this process. We have done quite a lot, and I have nothing to reproach himself, not counting 1st: if I had not placed his hopes on the Communist Party, which joined the ranks when the party started to run, and would collect such meetings, both on the Sparrow Hills, — then, perhaps, the collapse of the Russian opposition to the Union would be more active and effective.
All what I was doing in those years, and doing at the moment. I have a theater — called "Theatre" on the boards. " Go play for play, I playwright — they say that even quite scribbler. That's it. And the fact that as if I am moving around from side to side — from geology to the theater, from theater to politics — this is fiction spitpoisons.
In the end, the life of Mr. Havel most if not full of sudden upheavals? And what a real profession Nemtsov? Not to mention Udaltsov, who generally do not. Then what kind of questions for me?
— Do you have political ambitions?
— The idea that I sit in a cabinet in parliament or even in some places, causing me to not just sadness and profound internal revolt. A year earlier, they came to me young people who are in the spiritual plane miraculously survived the horrific 90s. There are many. I think the fundamental issue them organizationally and politically. Will newcomer levopatrioticheskih structure. Maybe she will get the weight (in any case, we have several orders of magnitude greater than the activists of the "Left Front"). My task, that they have become a force and, perhaps, even before the disaster could turn Russia. And her perspective, if we continue to sit on the spot, I seem gloomy — all countries associated with the betrayal of Russian unity in the late 80's, have finished badly.
— Sergey Ervandovich you in dealing fairly often used the word "hell", "hell", "catastrophe", "dark" — and it's all about today's Russia. Even a little unclear: how do you feel about the motherland, no future, no past, and the one that exists now?
— Near term I often hear: "In this country there are no more people that could teach you how to adore Russia."