Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor Yuri Gevondovich Shaqaryan came to power in the early 60s. the last century. More than half a century he worked for the All-Union Scientific Research Institute of Electric Power. Today Yuri Gevondovich has served as supervisor of "SEC FGC UES"
The whole country company
— Yuri Gevondovich as the abbreviation stands for FSK, they know almost everything: "Federal Grid Company". But of these three words one should be in charge. What?
— Perhaps the "federal". Company voltage network covers 500, 750, 330 kV and 220 kV networks, most, i.e. networks that constitute the main line mains country. It. what is called a backbone network. They form a unified energy system of Russia. This is the basic backbone of our energy.
— And how these networks are distributed?
— 220 kW — is in the center, in Siberia and in the south, 330 — the north-west, south, 750 — the north-west, in the direction of Europe, 500 kV — everywhere. In Soviet times, we did another attempt to lay a line of 1150 kV, a piece created it — from Ekibastuz, Kazakhstan to the center, but then she was transferred to 500 kV. Union collapsed and disappeared from the relevant energy supply Ekibastuz. While we continue to talk about what we need to create a network of extra high. The Chinese are now making a network of 1,000 kW in Canada, they also have.
— It is important for the export of energy?
— Export of energy can be produced at any voltage. For example, in Finland we transfer energy through a DC link in China — through the line DC. Since we wanted to unite Europe through existing networks of 750 kV, which run through Ukraine — there is a strong infrastructure, but for political reasons it did not happen. The greater the voltage, the more transmit power. Because it all depends how much to give or consume.
— We have now declared a policy of innovative development. What innovative projects are at FNC?
— The Federal Grid Company is one of the few companies that are serious about innovation and has a whole program of development of innovative technologies. If it is very short, this is true for the design of electrical networks, and the use of new materials, technologies and equipment.
— New materials for wires? That in copper may be new?
— Even in the copper can be a lot. Taking into account, for example, can greatly increase nanotechnology transmitted over the same wire cross-section capacity. Next, a very promising construction of what is now referred to as intelligent networks. This network, in which are mounted devices capable of adjusting parameters of the network. In today's ordinary representation grid is the transport of energy from point A to point B. And if I put into this network different devices, depending on the mode they will change its parameters until the change of direction is reversed. There is a whole group of unique technologies relating to improving manageability. All based on power electronics, advanced control systems and a new type of electric machines.
— But only the energy transport is not limited.
— There is a technology associated with the use of various energy storage devices. Now there are powerful batteries that can store energy and then to give its peak. In large networks of high short-circuit currents. There are devices which are restricted — based on different technologies, including explosives. All this forms the basis of the innovation policy. There is a project involving the use of superconductivity. FGC has undertaken to link two substations in St. Petersburg superconducting DC line. Like do in other countries, in Japan, the U.S., China, and we are now in this part are in the most advanced positions. It is very important trend associated with diagnostics equipment. She is now continuous, the results are displayed on the computer, come to the duty manager and they can see in real time how to operate a particular device is going on in a particular sector. A lot of interesting projects. To say that some of them are the most important, you can not. I, for example, are interesting power electronics, tokoogrannchiteli, superconducting technology. Someone more interested in the management system, someone-funded subjects. A lot of work on the creation of explosion-proof equipment. How many people, so many interests. Electrical network must be reliable, efficient, safe and environmentally friendly. And all this must not lead to an increase in tariffs.
— Is it possible? After all, any increase in the growth rates is fraught with difficulty.
— Not really. New investments can pay off at the expense of rational economy. If I apply the cumulative technique to use the generated energy more efficiently, then I'm saving on the construction of some power plants, etc.
— But the economy is manifested in time and costs. and a lot are needed now. What is covered by the temporary difference?
— You are right. In order to get the savings, you must first invest, to do something. To invest, you need money. And take money from? Of the plans. That's why they are rising. But then they have to go down. In Switzerland, the construction of the power plant is announced, people say that in three to five years, they will pay more, and then when the installation will be put into operation, the rates will fall. And it's done.
— According to your feelings, innovative way of development — this is serious? Or is it just another declaration?
— This, of course, declarative ad and definitely specific public relations company. But the way it should be. Because it is first necessary to explain to people the authorities, the government, the president of the need for such a route. On the other hand, it is allocated large funds. Currently there are a very interesting project but Interconnection of Siberia and the Far East. They work separately from the Soviet era. And here they are combined. And not just as a DC link. This is a very large, expensive, ambitious project, and it is carried out, ie this is not only a declaration, but the real technique. Over the last four or five years there have been many, though, of course, would have been greater. There is another problem — all these achievements so far point. But if you begin mass deployment, if this industry will start to catch up, then prices will fall. Prior to that, we get five years. But you first need to check it out. Now the initial stage, which requires a large investment, development.
— You say — point implementation …
— It always starts with a dot. Take Moscow and St. Petersburg: there are weak points — say, somewhere in the voltage is low, but somewhere on the other hand, high. In these places put the new device to stabilize the operation. All have effect. At the Moscow substation "Cascade" in the future, it is planned to put a special short-circuit current limiting device. Check it out there, then begin to implement everywhere. One does not contradict, and the introduction point, if all goes according to plan, develops into a mass.
Do not sit down to zero
— Several years ago, Moscow experienced a blackout powerful, "end of the world in one single city." Now we are guaranteed against such situations?
— No one hundred percent guarantee of anything ever give. But, of course, to learn of any accident. After Moscow, for example, realized that we needed to take a series of measures to introduce explosion-proof equipment, advanced automation system to do an extensive information system, etc. Similar accidents have been in other countries. In Germany, the ship was going down the river, touched his mast bridge, cut the power line, and most of West Germany was left without electricity. So to say that we from the insured. it is impossible. The main thing — after any accident to draw correct conclusions. By the way, the Moscow accident was not so serious, it was just a lot of noise, but in fact it was quickly extinguished — for a few hours, all restored. Worse was the case in St. Petersburg, a few years later. Most of St. Petersburg is powered by a substation — "East." After an accident on her most of the city remained without stress, and long enough. This and concluded that it is necessary to arrange the cross-links between substations. This is a huge financial cost. Basically, our energy system in Soviet times was very well automated. If something happens, we begin to disconnect customers. But due to the fact that we disable the "irresponsible" of consumers, we are saving the rest. This is the so-called system protivovoennogo management. Then she began to migrate to Europe, the United States. In 1946, near Moscow, there was a very serious accident. One of the main power plant after a powerful short-circuit "the village by zero", ie completely disconnected. The mass disconnection. Due to the automation of Energy protivovoennoy managed within just two or three hours to save the Moscow power system. And she could totally go out, normally to the Kremlin and the hospital, and the subway, etc. Very quickly cut off part of the consumer, and then little by little began to connect again. In the U.S., a powerful system of energy, but they were three very large system crash. And it turned out, one line is down, the other overloaded and too disconnected, etc. There is, for example, five lines, and all the "fallen" — rolling blackouts. We have never happened and never will.
— Last year, many said, is the peak of solar activity, and that may well happen again, "Carrington Event", when in 1859, after a powerful solar flare on earth are out of order telegraph networks, and many of the telegraph station just burned down. Today it would not be an "event", but a catastrophe. Or are we from such disasters are already protected?
— That's an interesting question. There is a group of professionals who believe that solar activity affects the network, causing currents in the ground, which can damage the equipment and cause a blackout. We, together with the staff of the Joint Institute for High Temperatures special study of this question, invited experts and found that the exact correlation between solar activity and accidents yet. To say that solar activity does not affect the Earth's energy system, it is difficult. Because in the end, if the Sun is very large electric or magnetic pulse, then, of course, he somehow affect. But for now, make it clear that after a powerful solar flare in an hour or two, we all turned off, you can not. Although this topic has so many different publications. For example, last year in Paris, the issue was discussed in a very serious session. Canadian experts have tried to prove that this danger is real. Our position can be expressed in one word: unlikely. For us the end of the world both literally and figuratively can occur if the run out of reserves of hydrocarbons.
— You are in power for more than half a century. How much has changed in that time the industry, energy networks?
— We, the energy — conservative people. As physicians who have primary commandment — "Do no harm." Many power lines that were built in the first half of the last century, are still working. In the U.S., across the country, across the continent are power lines on wooden poles, set nearly a century ago. So apparently like nothing much has changed. And in fact, a lot has changed. There are powerful modern technologies that enable you to control mode of operation of systems, advanced automation system, instantly reacting to changing parameters. There are new towers — fishnet, mesh, new, more powerful wires. Energy for all its conservatism — very high-tech industry. And any of the fundamental achievements, industry research we have introduced. True, it happens slowly. What is right. As already mentioned, we have, as the doctors, the main principle — "Do no harm." Introduce massively something new, poorly tested, risky, including the security of the country. It always requires a reasonable conservatism: Let's somewhere in one place will deliver, check, let's see, let's try. It turned out, move on. It did not work — we will bring to an end until you get. There are also failures, it is natural. But everything has changed greatly. The losses were smaller. If at the beginning of the century loss in backbone networks were more than 10-20%, today they account for 7-8%. This is more than in Western countries, but much less than it was.
— So, the loss of the Western networks is less than we do. And what else our networks differ?
— This question is very vague. Technology we are very close to the Europeans. Somewhere they are ahead of us, but somewhere we did not give in to them, even surpass. But Europe is small and the networks it very much. We call this "copper board" when
the grounds are so densely saturated networks. This gives Europe the big advantages: they are very easy to transfer energy from one end to the other in various ways, to buy energy that one, then another manufacturer. We have a little different situation. We have a great country, great distances. We can not cover all of its dense network — it will be very expensive, and not entirely justified. If you look at the map, you will see that more than two-thirds of Russia in general are not covered by a single system and diesel-powered plants, tiny local power plants, etc. Do I need to pull back a line or easier to import fuel? Everywhere it is necessary to count the money. Therefore, with Europe in view of the geographical position is very difficult to compare. We are close in geography, countries such as Canada, Brazil, China.
— And you can tell us more about what is being done in China?
— China made a mad dash. He achieved what we have not been able to: set up a very powerful DC line and a good infrastructure for their production on the basis of Western technology. And they made this breakthrough in a very short period of time — some 15-20 years. The Chinese began to develop the industry, and to do that, we need energy. And that was the energy, need modern technology. The Chinese first bought the West samples, then began to copy them, then began to set up joint production, then — the economic zone. Deng Xiaoping was a smart man, so they all did great. Today is a very booming Brazil, in which something of the technologies we are even lagging behind. But some — excellent.
— And we are back from the U.S. forever?
— United States — is a very specific country, where power is built very differently than we do. They were originally three or four independent grid which were not connected. Only after the accident, they were united. But I would not say that they are significantly ahead of us. They simply have more money, so they are well develop alternative energy, renewable, wind, solar. We have this worse.
— We have a real opportunity to make a leap, like China or Brazil?
— There is. But it has to be harmoniously related to the progress of the entire industry. What was wonderful electrification plan? It was, of course, a program of energy development, but it was based on carrying forward all kinds of industry and manufacturing. For example, if you make the power line, you need the wire. And in order to do the wires need plants, mining and smelting of copper production of insulation is required, and this chemical plants, etc. Therefore electrification plan at the same time fomenting the development of industry, and the jump in the industry spurred Embed entry of new energy capacity. We can go the Chinese way, in one case — if we know how we have developed industry, where some plants are what power they need, where, what and how much to pull. Let's say we have a very large area in Siberia, KATEK where good and cheap coal. We will build a power plant there. And the industry is there? The consumer is? This question is related to the general state of the economy. We can not develop a separate network technologies or to build some crazy lines, not knowing who it is and where it is necessary to pass. And see what is in China. They growing industry, increasing production, there collect all that is in the world. Now, if we go down that road and start to build new factories and businesses, of course, require electricity. And while we are there we will develop new technologies. We have the same industry is growing slowly, so what's the point will be an annual increase in capacity?
The future on the line
— What do you think about projects such as the wireless transmission of electricity, transmission of a laser beam, and the like? Times were visionaries?
— I would not say so. And would not call the people involved in projects such visionaries. Already have a wireless power transmission technology, which takes the idea of the great Nikola Tesla. It is related to the fact that it creates a powerful high-frequency wave. What is broadcast? You can transmit a radio signal through the wires, and you can without wires through the modulator, amplifier, antenna, etc. The same can be done with the high-frequency electricity. The problem is that the efficiency of this method of transmission is very low. Economically, it is disadvantageous because it lost 90% of energy. There are intensive efforts to create a single-wire lines, were made a few prototypes, but as long as they are also cost effective. The transfer of energy by means of laser technology is also now engaged. While I can not say that well, but doing. There's a really fantastic projects, such as lift into space solar cells and from there to transmit energy to the Earth. Theoretically it is possible, but also very expensive.
— I guess it all as long as we do not need this. When Academician Artsimovich asked how soon we will have fusion energy, he, with his characteristic wisdom and sarcastically replied that she will appear as soon as it becomes necessary.
— That's right. As long as our country has gas and oil, we are on the tip of the hydrocarbon sit yourself feel good, very well sell it — and live. In the world as is the serious development of renewable energy (which has, of course, has its own problems). And to us it would be nice to think about it. Oil needle is not very related to network issues, because the networks transmit the electricity from point A to point B, and the electricity is produced by gas or uranium, for the network of care. As I see it, get rid of the oil-addiction is very difficult. To do this, we need the political will and a lot of money.
— What place? Atoms for Peace?
— I do not think completely. With all due respect to the nuclear industry it has its problems. There, for example, it is difficult to regulate the power. But attempts are being made to get off the needle. Develop, as I said, the coal technology, wind farms are being built. tidal etc. Of course, we have to get off, but it will be done and what will come instead, depends on many circumstances. The economic situation. because there is a crisis or not, because prices will fall or not to fall. If the price of gas and oil will drop, then do not have to have anything at all. Therefore, the money that we now get from oil and gas, it is necessary to start up on these alternative and innovative projects. albeit designed for the future. While this is not always the case. Sorry. |
Interviewed by Valery Chumakov