Kalinowski: Victor, the preparations for the congress? Frame showed prepyadstviya the hotel?
Ivashkevich: Yes, as it turned out that the seats are required for BPF Congress, we are denied. But we have found mechanisms, and I think any problems with the placement of people will not.
That does not suit today’s leadership?
Kalinowski: first question for both: what, in your opinion, gives the presidency of the opposition parties, the BNF for which actually is a struggle. Both of you were not chairmen, but worked as deputy. Why you could not accomplish what offer at the moment, under the collective leadership in a democratic framework? Especially since it can not be called Vyachorka authoritarian ruler? Ivashkevich: Two points are to the right of» volume can only do chairman. First: to contract with allies inside Belarus and abroad. And second: to negotiate with sponsors activities of the party — also the right of» volume. Kind of the substituent can do it, but certainly, that the chairman of this support and commit.
Kalinowski: So you want to have new opportunities?
Ivashkevich: New opportunities for forging alliances with organizations and Inish for finding resources for research.
Kalinowski: Emperor Alexander, whose opportunities for you was not enough as the deputy? Mihalevitch: As deputy chairman of the Belarusian Popular Front party, I had a pretty great opportunities in inner-life: I was doing inner reinforcement, work with the regions. But there were several areas in which I could not go. This kind of outdoor party establishment, as one way or another, this function belongs to the chairman first. Also, it is true Victor said, this cooperation with other public and political forces both inside Belarus and beyond. It was carried out exclusively in the format of the coalition, and, in my opinion, there is a very significant deficiencies on vnutribelorusskoy collaboration with other public forces.
Kalinowski: And what do you suggest?
Mihalevitch: Creating broad government coalition, cooperation with different public organizations inside Belarus. And I propose to do so, that we first tried to secure the unity of the state forces.
Kalinowski: Victor, please specify: what, in your opinion, did not correctly Vintsuk Vyachorka in those areas, which reads as you? What would you change?
Ivashkevich: I believe that we need to work with a huge range of much political and public organizations than did Vyachorka. How would I do it — I showed during the organizing committee Euro Marsha, in support of which made a lot more organizations than formally have the UDF. And second. 90% of the financing of Euro march — had the means, obtained with the help of people of Belarusian business and not from the budget» About the united democratic forces and the yield on these wheels have a business, I think the breakthrough, which is necessary to fix . I think that it can do, I as chairman BPF.
As result of the BPF to win the election?
Kalinowski: During this campaign, you said that you know how to make a fraction of the BPF in the House of Representatives. And if that do not take this in a year will retire from his post as chairman of the BPF. By the way, no factions in the House — to its regulations. Yet, explain that you invent a mechanism capable to overcome psevdavybarchuyu installed system. At least in general terms, that could for you to believe.
Ivashkevich: In 1-x, we must firmly declare that without the release of political prisoners, without admission of our people in the electoral commissions without registering our candidates in any pseudo participate we will not, and will encourage people to go into the streets to seek other forms of free elections. The struggle for free elections — is the first and of mandatory item. We should not claim, as presently claimed favorites SLM that we go to the polls in all criteria, because it is, I believe, surrender — especially given the fact that European countries require you to perform a 12-minute criterion, and among them basic — this free election.
And, in-2, I think that we can deploy in Europe a public campaign against lending Belarus until it meets these conditions small: the release of political prisoners and allowed the opposition to the electoral commission. And, you must first apply to Rayfayzenbanka, which is the main emblem of today’s European aid regime. I think it is fruitful, and the government should go for these small democratic concessions.
In the conditions of these small democratic concessions, concentrating forces on the outskirts of the towns, and where there is the greatest impact of democratic thought, pro-European attitudes and stronger structure of the front, we can persuade people and, most importantly, honestly later calculate voting results and make a group of deputies of the BPF.
I think if we do a group of deputies of the BPF, then go identity processes, samavmatsavannya House of Representatives, as it was in the Supreme Soviet of the 12th convocation, when there appeared a fraction of the BPF then not numerous — 14 people — but still, the criteria a constitutionally enshrined leadership role Communist Party has been achieved, that the Supreme Council 18 months decided to ban the Communist Party of Independence, flag, coat of arms, and it was done under the influence of members of the faction of the BPF.
Changes to a true democracy is impossible in one step — you must make a move to establish a faction. But again I emphasize: this must be preceded by a struggle for free elections, at least partially.
Kalinowski: Alexander, how do you assess such reservedly optimistic plan Ivashkevich?
Mihalevitch: For its part I wish to say that I am fully confident that the current system is based on Lukashenko as on a wall, and if there is a nail in this cementitious face Lukashenko, system crashes, and will have the opportunity to take over power in the country not only through fraction in parliament, and will have the opportunity to take power in the full amount». Because I do not believe in the democratization of Lukashenko times, I do not believe that Lukashenko will go to whatever that any concessions that he will miss a significant number of people in the commission. Will happen, still, strengthening the current regime — in other words, will last falsification, people will not admit to the electoral commission, candidates will be shot from a distance of a day or more before the vote, so I do not believe such a plan.
Ivashkevich: Let replica. In my opinion, free presidential elections and the replacement of the President — is the final destination. Again I say — in order to reach him, just like that, without rhyme or reason, the current situation of a strong regime, and later the main nail suddenly chosen — I think it’s impossible. Steps should be taken to this
As political scientists evaluate applicants:
Kalinowski: Well, of course. The discussion will last, but for now let’s hear about the future outlook of the Congress political scientist Vladimir Mackiewicz, who told Radio Liberty:
"Ivashkevich — and this is a temporary compromise figure."
Matskevich believes that the situation in the BPF rather complicated:
"There is so to say the combination of 2-crises in the Front. Crisis functioning and the daily routine of work. But this is not the most important thing, it just runs and runs. But as things are more severe, it is — the crisis program. I think at the moment the most difficult things happen particularly in the software and the conceptual sphere. "
Kalinowski: Victor, or offer you something of their own election theses software and conceptual, or agree to a compromise figure role, as stated by Vladimir Mackiewicz?
Ivashkevich: I agree with him — I did read that my candidacy compromise in the sense that those who are connected voedinyzhdy around Vyachorka not behold the criteria themselves in Michalevic victory as manager of the front, and the same group Michalevic — some not behold the self running Vecherko. In my version, they are all willing to work a certain time, which, of course, does not eliminate the ability of the sovereign Mihalevitch two years later to run and win again. Indeed, I believe that in the coming two year will be period of transition, the Reformation, the transition from dictatorship to democracy, and in these crisis criteria I — more than ready for such drastic and revolutionary action. With regard to future work — completely necessary that the youth took over the business.
Kalinowski: Alexander, you spend active, once brutal campaign. You have to nominate for the post Ivashkevicha BPF (I quote from the FSA) as "a sign of panic before Congress, an attempt to save the sinking ship."
And oh so appreciated your chances to be elected chairman of the BPF one of the founders of the front Yuri Khadika:
"I believe that the chances of the third smallest significantly. And not only because it is still a young man who needs more padnabratstsa political experience, political authority, and since he did not stand such achievements, which would give him the right to run for now the most highest post of the Belarusian Popular Front. "
So explain to — what you have in assets to say (and I quote your words): "Only my election will enable BPF soon come to power"?
Mihalevitch: First, I have 10’s certain things that I did. And believe me, the congress delegates, who has twice given me the confidence to be elected deputy chairman of the party, I am sure, will have confidence in me and now — to be chairman of the party. I worked with them, helped in some cases to do so that in the languid criteria regional work in those days, when people were fired from their jobs — that they had an opportunity for real frontovskoy activities.
I know how strengthened frontovskie structure. And plus I have this on a national level, the concept — with whom to collaborate, how to cooperate in order to connect all of the» forces that want reform, in order to give the Belarusian society candidacy as applets — it way, too, in my opinion, very fundamentally — not just beg the question of any "5 Steps to the best of life," after which we will elect the parliament, where everyone will be able to vote for whom they zahochut. Very basically give some soft candidacy certain program from what will engage the new government. ‘Cause I will say this, perhaps immodestly, that I today — just the man, which is able to connect to» national forces, able to do so that all those who are interested in the reforms of the» merged and changed the situation.
With regard to any specific cases, as I said, not counting the 10’s, hundreds of certain things that I have on my account, also, in general, I read about this yesterday — about the organizations that I have previously ruled, for example, Association of Belarusian students who I ruled in his student days, which exists to this day and works hard — I am fully confident that I will, as I have already said about the critical mass» to join organizations. And most importantly — I’m sure that my main contribution is yet to come.
Kalinowski Victor or assured you Mikhalevich their arguments on the fact that he can really be able to bring to power the BNF?
Ivashkevich: Naturally, all — and Vyachorka and Mihalevitch — worked this time and as sp.Vyachorka said, "led Kratova job." This "Kratova work" is not seen in public — she was, but I believe that the chairman of the Belarusian Popular Front — this first public office, and he must initiate any applets, companies that have made him famous all over the country, and, according to the latest least, to all people. interested in politics. And in these national campaigns chairman must manifest. In my case, the last thing was — is the preparation and holding of Euro march and the company that will be developed further in this direction. Indeed, I believe that a constructive program to elections — this is exactly what the BNF can achieve integration between Belarus and Europe, and people fail to get the benefits which can be gain from economic cooperation with Europe.
So here, sire Mihalevitch still need to assure themselves in public with the management of some national company.
Questions applicants each other
Kalinowski: Victor, ask your own question Ales Mikhalevich
Ivashkevich: If I become chairman — what job sovereign Mihalevitch wish to do?
Mihalevitch: In any case, I am a person who has a very severe» severe political experience, and I’m sure I’ll find yourself inside the Front for the direction of the work, which I’ll do. I am interested in regional work, I’m interested in the work to strengthen the Minsk city organization, because I managed to strengthen regional structures, and would also strengthen the city.
Kalinowski Alexander and Victor your question?
Mihalevitch: the first time you announced about his desire to run for the presidency of the party, you have declared intention to be the chairman of one term, and after this place give way to someone elect Congress. A few days back the clock on the debate in BPF you already talk about the 2-terms. So how much you want to hold the position of chairman?
Ivashkevich: I, as already stated, wants to hold the post for two years. For two years, I’m sure they’ll be able to make democratic changes in the country, which said in its own terms. And about 6 years I stated in connection with the fact that I believe the Chairman shall have 6 years to do her program from. I had already some time worked quite intensively deputies, and I believe that two years was enough for me to carry out their own applets. But for future presidencies I read about 6 years.
Kalinowski: And a moment to summarize and appeal to the audience, among whom there are probably congress delegates.
Ivashkevich: Discussion, which revolves around the BNF congress initiated by me. I believe that an organization that wants to be a mass, wants to be really popular front should be very open and in their activities to appeal to a wide range of people, explaining to them their position and calling to join. How Congress is held, I think it is very useful, and what will be the last congress of the Front exclamation strong political campaign this year, give prospects for development in the coming year.
Mihalevitch: I wish first to express my gratitude to the founders of the front, including Messrs. Vyachorka and Ivashkevich for what they have created in the late 80s and early 90s. I am sure that if she had not done — many of today’s young activists just would not be in motion. Because I am very grateful to them for what they did opportunity — including me — to participate in the party to fight for the values to be independent Belarus. I am sure that that is a debate that is now unfolding in the front, all of us will benefit and will strengthen our party with you.
• A. Mikhalevich Vyachorka and answer the questions of "Freedom", 26.11.2007