Drakakhrust: "Of the events of this week is not it the most controversy and passions aroused meeting musicians in Belarus favorites recognizable rock groups, with the control of the ideological department of the presidential administration Oleg Pralyaskouski. Oils added in consuming disputes and conflicting explanations of what to participants in the meeting agreed . seems the most neutral version is this: the authorities represented Proleskovsky recognized the existence of "dark lists" musicians got there for speaking to opposition actions, promised to abolish these lists, and in return invited musicians to stay away from politics. Managers rock groups responded that want to stay away from her. When I defined the outcome of the meeting is not quite right with Pralyaskouski attendee and member of our transmission Lavon Volsky correct me.
But in any case it looks that there is a topic of discussion, there is a personal case an old as the world, the problem — a painter and power. Some have called up the meeting with musicians Pralyaskouski deal with Satan. Levon how you feel in the role of Dr. Faustus? Which deal compromises your eyes, you can go in your situation, and what not? "
Wolski: "I do congratulate all that a revival of the Belarusian came the Web, there is a reason to talk about anything. Fact already about a year of such occasions was a little much, but here such a revival. Mene have bombarded all livejournal messaging — and furious, and in support.
In fact, nothing terrible and sacramental failed. Was not patsverzhany fact ban. If concerts as Sasha Kulinkovich was not so long ago, are prohibited, the music is very sensitive. And we supported him. It was necessary to put some point.
We are political prisoners in the country, but it is something formally accused. To us uttered that we have a small artistic level and therefore we should not act on the vast grounds, we would have accepted this as a condition of the game. But it was said, there were some calls, and it lasted three years. And if there was a government initiative encounter with us, we will certainly go for it. "
Drakakhrust: "Leonid, I should like to clarify information on the part of the conversation when Proleskovsky said, what’s good for you is to stay away from politics — you are all together not sent him even further administration of the president? You either silent or said that so really best to stay away. "
Wolski: "Someone said nothing, someone said that we are not and climbed into politics. But there was no agreement, as there was the question — we’ll give it to you, but we promise you that. Was not such trade . was embarrassed parekamendavana (or not embarrassed, and relaxed) — maybe you have not played there … Someone said — how not to play.
Parekamendavana was later to do a concert on BT "Rock for Belarus." To this we immediately refused, we uttered that if something will be, under a different title. I, for example, to this day I do not find Fri collision with BT. "
Drakakhrust: "Leonid, is it true that I realized that sounded timid request consent if timid or embarrassed silence same?"
Wolski: "Listen, I’m not going to run across to the individual. This is dependent on the individual. We representativeness different musical formations, and different people react differently to different proposals."
Morale and Creativity
Drakakhrust: "Nikolai you in the comments for the meeting, we are discussing the behavior of musicians dubbed" immoral. "Do I need to be aware of this so that moral — is to side with the opposition, on the side of democracy? Paraphrase a famous historical figure," morally all that contributes to the cause of democracy, immoral everything that hinders its victory "?"
Khalezin: "I have a starting position that worries me: that negotiations went on music. I would absolutely not motivate, to go group J-MORS whether Polina Polina. But there is a favorite of modern social thought, which looks a lot of youth. And they, like me, worried, went to Lavon and Igor Volsky Varashkevich, with whom and about what they had read. It’s — this audience favorite.
It does not fit on the public dialogue, which they say politics. Musician, painter, director, playwright may not participate in the negotiations. He can participate in their only when he mandate for such negotiations given his colleagues. If such mandate not, plumbing themselves will speak with authority, dentists — themselves, painters — you and everyone will read about their own.
To negotiate with the government, even more so with the power of authoritarian, one person has to go to all of us with a mandate from all of us.
Here was arrested "Free Theatre" performance, coupled with the audience. I would also indignant as Sasha Kullinkovich and went into administration on the negotiations? No, I’m not going to these talks. I am the creator, and I’ll work on, reluctantly heart. And later I will choose a politician who is from me and my colleagues to participate in these negotiations and suppresses this power. "
Drakakhrust: "Valentine, and what your eyes on this situation, and in general to this dilemma — a painter and power? If the analogy, you can read about the experience of, say, Vaclav Havel, whose position relative to the Communist government was completely uncompromising. But you can recall examples of, say, Yanka Kupala, Vasil Bykov, Misha Bulgakov Russians who went to certain transactions with yablam d» — with power. "
Akudovich: "At first our conversation you, Yuri, recalled Faust. I immediately remembered the literary fairy tale about the creator of Faust. In the royal park are sitting on the bench and said Goethe and Beethoven. Suddenly Goethe rebounds, removes his hat and becomes a hook. Beethoven looks around and sees on the horizon King and his retinue. When the procession passes by them, a little Beethoven rises from the bench, and after Goethe says: "I thought that you — the master poets, and you — a poet of the rulers."
For me the moral of the fable — not in these last words, Beethoven, and in that world culture stately lislivets Goethe has no less than Beethoven resistance beggar.
Importance of talent, and even more genius, is not depending on whether he is cooperating with authorities or struggling with it. Examples of this thesis — to consider not count.
But we are not gathered here for abstract theorizing. We have a certain situation. Four recognizable Belarusian musicians decided to change the position of resistance to the position of cooperation with the authorities. Maybe the cooperation they have not thought of, but only the desired conditions. But in our situation, one from the other is not very different.
This intrigued me is not so much the problem of relations with the power of the creator, as with those who appreciate their work. Last a day or two I watched various websites. I think so sky collapsed on the ground, we would not have heard so many screams, clicks, groans, curses, indignation etc. Our musicians have done what their supporters could not imagine for themselves even in a terrible dream.
Recall here the words of eminent Exupery responsibility towards those you have tamed. I think when the guys were going to meet with Pralyaskouski they thought about anything, but not those for whom their valnalyubaya creativity was a real support in life.
I share the outrage Kulinkovich Alexander, who complained that in the last days it poured a bucket of shit. Just ponder Alexander and his friends, a real physical pain they created those who are so very loved and respected? "
Drakakhrust: "Leonid, I wish here to bring Kulinkovich reaction in response to the statement of some evil person who said that these wheels will throw rock bands songs and remove them from your own computer. At this favorite "Neuro Dubel" said that, it is seen ethe man NOT appreciate our music and our position, which he dreamed. Word for you to answer the judgment of Nicholas and Valentine. "
Wolski: "Everyone is entitled to their worldview. I respect their worldview, from the side it’s plain and simple look. When apynaessya himself in such a situation, it is more difficult. I do not see any crime in our march to power, and the more so with the result that no harsh. Not the fact that the concerts will be resolved, I myself am not going to go BT.
It seems to me that the very fact that these icons from the wall and went to zlezli Proleskovsky — it is angered people. But it is somehow surprising. Hence, people, that are currently discarded our compacts, not very deeply into our creativity and our biography. Such means were lovers ".
Or the place of the artist — at the barricade?
Drakakhrust: "Svetlana Aleksievich once said:" At the barricade impossible to unravel the mystery of life. Barricade — this is not the place for an artist. "Leon, do you agree with this statement? Maybe the authorities represented Proleskovsky guided obviously its objectives, to offer for you to do what you want to do themselves -" zleztsi with barricades "? "
Wolski: "We did not offer anything special and nothing on kicking, here’s the thing."
Drakakhrust: "Leonid, I interrupt you. We are talking about fundamentally things rather than spend inkvizytarskae proceedings. I’m talking about the general dilemma — you want "zleztsi with barricades?"
Wolski: "I do not see that we have so much on her climb. As the country has a revolutionary situation, if something really matured — we will always be there, we are there. When stagnation, as at the moment, need to engage in creative . Prof. role fighter, Prof. revolutionary I’m not very interested in them and I is not, I see myself as a creator. I do not write songs about the struggle. We write songs about life, about what worries us. Not the least of this can be politics, and society. But this does not mean that we — Prof. fighters. "
Drakakhrust: "Nicholas, you mentioned in the comments uttered by me, that the transaction, which went to music (you thought that it occurred), kill them first as artists, as creators. And you think that the creator of the place — particularly on the barricade, in head of the revolutionary columns, only there it can be a real creator? Here Valentin presently recalled the story of Goethe. Goethe Goethe remained, though, and bowed down to the kings. "
Khalezin: "I would not divide the world into a dark and snowy. When we talk about modern art — that rock culture, and contemporary theater, and I attribute this to ourselves — we are not passionate about Shakespeare productions as Levon not rehash any Russian composers. This contemporary art. And it asks for an entirely different and relationship with the audience, and their own behavior.
Barricade is in the life of the creator, who is engaged in contemporary art in itself for itself. I hope that if the power changes, and we will push the latest power as well as modern. Well, maybe less, because it is a democratic government. But I’m not going to cross over to the authorities. Power is always worse than people. "
Drakakhrust: "Sorry, I interrupted you. Could the turn so that, coupled with the departure of the regime will be gone and the arts, whose main message — the fight against this regime?"
Khalezin: "Art is burning in all countries, including in the most democratic countries in the world. And there it would» s power on the head and forehead. Do not come down this art. Maybe some individual representatives, conformists, are gone, but in their place come the young, with more bolshennymi clubs that will thresh their latest power.
I am also on the hunt inkvizytarskaga proceedings. I have a suggestion: counter-culture figures going up requirements later elect politicians who commit to negotiate. And let this politician whose profession — to find a compromise (unlike us), b» etsya for us. And we’ll ask him. "
Akudovich "Aleksievich rights — barricade no place for an artist. Painter But — it’s not a ghost, but a person in real life. And this man has a plainclothes position, if it is, of course, he is, what standards and values that he is ready to defend, and even from time to time and to protect the barricades. The barricades are not a painter, and the citizen.
However, it is usually there for a long time not to stay, and if still alive, a painter it rapidly overcomes citizen, and he gets away with barricades to his own work, as many of us run down to their tables and workshops with Square.
But the heroes of our conversation could not be identified with Barrikadnaja fighters or those who call to the barricades. They are the creators, they are architects. They not only zakantseptavali Mroya independence of the Republic, they made their art and the inhabitants of this country — the free and the brave. Moreover, they are three turtles with one of their songs, kept on their own shells made them the world.
Belarusian rock music 90s of the twentieth century for the emergence of civilization played the same role as that of Wagner for the establishment of German civilization in the XIX century.
And when Lavon Volsky "Our field" wondered how many of the tragedies that they were going to look at carpets and vases in the presidential administration — in other words he is not willing to understand what happened. For many, the situation is not catastrophic saw their special trip, and from the fact that "three turtles" that kept them made the world began to unravel in different directions.
So I again ask our musicians to think about responsibility, and not only in front of his creativity, and before the world, which they did, and to those whom they lured into this world. Catastrophe that the world they may damage. "
Negotiations and their implications
Drakakhrust: "Leonid, whether you realized the risk of those promises if not, then the agreement that you gave during interviews with Pralyaskouski? Not to look usyaznaykam and moral teacher, miscalculated his experience, when I told ANT their outlook on the new stories, their way later tribute to dissect and introduced me to the air apologist Lukashenko. You probably people smarter than I am, but do not you fear that the proposals Proleskovsky — a trap that you have caught? "
Wolski: "I repeat again — no dramatic change. We prepared for the worst, we were waiting for us to come, and we will offer something in exchange for something. Nothing itself was not just musicians expressed their long-standing grievances, someone has prepared his speech, as Oleg Khomenko. listening to us more than we listened to our opponents from power.
I would also wish to say that I was very hurt that in recent years has created a situation in Belarus, which is close to stagnation. Many glittering cultural and political events, all accustomed to status quo, to the fact that there is opposition, such as it is, there is power, such as it is, there are musicians — spotless and bright, the conscience of civilization. Maybe it’s fate so made that it should be cranky. And the reaction to the recent actions, including the Web, indicate that something is changing.
I would like to shatter this situation, because this recollection that segodnyaschy Belarusian situation everyone is happy: the West and Russia, and ordinary people, and people uneasy, all are sitting in their places, earn money and partially satisfied with the situation. There Prof. fighters who masterfully struggling for decades, and the situation has not changed. "
Drakakhrust: "Nicholas, you have painted such an exciting scheme that artists are going to define requirements, commit to negotiate a policy that goes to Proleskovsky for dialogue (if he will perceive, by the way.) But painters — individualistic people, each has its own requirements.
Here and there from the beginning this year is a conversation about any negotiations Milinkevich in February wrote a letter Lukashenko, incidentally, also with anyone without checking their initiative. Well, as musicians held their talks, went to some compromises. So what? Maybe here and there is no difficulty? "
Khalezin: "Dialogue should lead policy. Their work, their profession — a search for compromise. Neither Lavon not a politician, nor I is not a politician. I first wish — to take the club and bean. And him too. ‘Cause we do not can lead any negotiations.
I know that when they gather these artists, musicians, painters, writers, our demands are limited to almost five Fri: 1-in-x — release of political prisoners, and others will be special — cancel "dark lists" open platform for work, etc. ..
I’m not saying that this policy should go to Proleskovsky. This policy should represent us in the negotiating team that will negotiate with the government. I think there are also some trade unions, and public organizations.
Then the musicians in this campaign the administration has a positive. Then, we assume that they provoked this civilized work.
I know Leon from the end of the 1980s, I know how it relates to power, know who and what he is, and we have even been arrested together. No need to spoil the reputation. which narablyalasya decades. "
Wolski: "Why, then 3 years, no politician, no operations do not do what was painful for a large part of the population — that were forbidden huge ordinary concerts? All this for some reason took it for granted."
Khalezin: "It’s our fault. We did not come together and do not run over our politicians, that they were defending our rights. "
Drakakhrust: "Nicholas, power has very many shortcomings, but it is, I would have said, pragmatic. It can and will only negotiate with the people who represent a certain power — or political. Either spiritual, or even what. These musicians invited , as they found that they have something to represent. And better because we agree with them. Maybe deceiving with all this, but agree. A certain politician — the intermediary, which you offer — and who he is that for power? Why is it generally will talk to him? "
Khalezin: — "He is the representative of the counter-culture. Look at the recent activity in the country. One member of the "tent" says: "Let’s have a dialogue with youth organizations." Radkov, who led this latest "Pure white Russia", says: "I am ready to talk with representatives of the opposition." Came Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Germany, and says — you have to be a dialogue within the country. This is a new trend, it should be taken to date. power weakens, and we grow stronger.
And I agree with Levon we nothing happens. I see literary projects on the Web, I see new bands, there is a "Free Theatre" has painters. People are working, but they can not reveal the full mayors. "
Morozov: "In a certain sense, I agree with Nicholas. I also believe that dialogue is needed. We have one country, the general people, formed civilization. And at some point we all these barriers that divide us, we must unite and overcome into a whole.
Nicholas option than decent — in such a situation painters, creators who have their own public and in general in the country a certain style, stay with him. And any personal encounter with the power of the artist alone or a group, there will always be an artist put in a very difficult position.
It’s not that useless negotiations. The fact that these talks should not look like renting an artist’s own position. "