V.Landsbergis: Our homeland — a country that does not make treaties

Correspondent: Sovereign Vytautas what issues you discussed today in Brussels?
Landsbergis: We discussed the resolution on the likely consequences of building a gas pipeline under the Baltic Sea, as the situation in Georgia. In the end we had a day or Vice Prime Minister of Georgia, who called to warn the possibility of military action against the backdrop of today’s escalation of the conflict on the part of Russia.
CorrespondentHow influential position of Lithuania, satellite or she?

LandsbergisLithuania has an impact, as it holds its line of impressive and turn on as it listened. From time to time listen.
CorrespondentWhen I said that Liberty will guest Landsbergis, then Stanislav Shushkevich said that he has something to say Landsbergis.
ShushkevichWhen we were deputies of the USSR, then we become a catch phrase Gorbachev that politics — the art of the probable. Sovereign Landsbergis was the representative of the group of politicians for whom politics was an art unworkable.
CorrespondentLithuania veto on EU-Russian contacts. How do you explain to Lithuania’s position here as MEP?
LandsbergisLithuania EU recalls some fundamental things. When it comes to the contract, the question is why and with whom. Meaning contracts — do them. But just as our homeland does responsibilities past and current contracts. Or simply refuses or ignores them. Because Lithuania has decided to remind and ask the EU to set at least some requirements of in connection with the previous duty to all here know with whom we negotiate: with the government, which is committed to the treaties and to the other side, nesur & # 39, seriously, just ridicules partner takes out a contract that she must, and spits out that she does not like.
Correspondent: The last steps of politicians who have more heads of old friends EU that Europe should be more independent in solving geopolitical issues. What do you think, how can this actually be independent of the United States?
Landsbergis: It’s not only in the independence of the United States. A high dependence and no. But since the energy dependence of the EU-Russian Federation, if any. Behind this is a more frequent rejection of fundamentally positions. As, say, the Russian Federation does not like it.
Correspondent: And that means giving up a fundamentally positions? This means the way for the upcoming dilemmas?
Landsbergis: Failure to fundamentally positions — is evil and conniving way to new dilemmas. And Europe is at one point already tried regarding Nazi Germany, when the inferior in order to avoid conflict. And later received a lesson. Something similar happened with the Soviet Union, and at the moment with Russia, which again turns to the Russian practice times.
CorrespondentStanislav S., like you Comment out this position?

Shushkevich: I agree with that phrase sovereign Landsbergis. Compromise — it really, condoning evil. Again, I recall the words of Havel that politics should be an art unworkable. If this is art, it is — not an obvious thing. Art probable — this including condoning evil. But true art — hold fundamentally positions. And, unfortunately, I say this from a position of Belarus, Europe far not always behaves decently. That last expression Schroeder, former Chancellor of Germany, if he admires the stability of, its achievements …
CorrespondentHe businessman on territory of Russia …
ShushkevichI read in the newspaper "Izvestia", as one of the veterans who gave Russian life, health, reality gets a decent retirement pity, below the threshold of survival. If Our homeland admits such to their citizens, pensioners, it seems to me that this is just evil indulgences. Luxury one side and the other of poverty. Stately country should not allow it for yourself. And our homeland, which could prevent this, she admits.
Correspondent: Answers passers comment to the question: "What is the Belarusian statehood"?
Landsbergis: I have not heard the idea of human freedom, of independence of the Belarusian society, as it determines your destiny, or only relies on vlastderzhaschego and its power structures, which need to adapt and get a sausage or earnings, and Tipo all stop here. Here someone mentioned the Belarusian language. And what does the Belarusians to the fact that Belarusian schools almost completely eliminated? And that the Belarusian language and squeezed convicted under the current politics and power? And how Belarusians can determine? Either they know that nothing is able to do?
Correspondent: What to do if they think that nothing can be done?
Landsbergis: Then why all talk about the statehood? Government is not some cell in which people live. Government — a society of people who make their leading economic, social and educational structures. And that people should do together, exercising their will by democratic elections and self-determination in non-governmental organizations. But Belarus is not allowed. Or non-state should be municipal, government should listen to the holder.
ShushkevichI quite agree. We completely suppressed civilian society and created man-made structures. People forcibly herded into so-referred to as "snow-white Rus". It would be something like the party in power. People are deprived of the ability to use their own language. I currently applied to the Constitutional Tribunal in the Belarusian language, and I’m impressed, the answer came back in Russian.
CorrespondentI do not know how it can prevent a person to use their native language?
ShushkevichBut man wishes, that he and the government responded to their native language.
CorrespondentBut just sovereign Vytautas said that it must be fought for.
Shushkevich: How can I fight when the law is equal Belarusian language with Russian, but there is no legislation in the Belarusian language, the tribunal does not work in the Belarusian language. It is a farce, as in the former USSR.
CorrespondentBut in the former USSR were dissidents. And in today’s Belarus no dissidents and opposition have. There are people who present their interests in which Western countries are interested or internal forces. But no dissidents.
ShushkevichBut we have no opposition in the Western sense of the word. After all, the opposition has no rights. No free media.
Correspondent: Opposition not give rights. She gets it.
Shushkevich: So here is our opposition — it’s almost dissidents. But it is a strong pressure mechanism, and it is hot welcomed Our homeland. If Western countries behold the election fraud and do not recognize that our homeland due to traditions that have developed there, sassy statehood, all recognize. She admits this falsehood. And so it is very hard to resist this great friend who loves our power, which he can goad as he wishes.
Correspondent: And why Belarusian opposition forces do not act in public, in Russia when human rights are violated. If the other side has any little support, then why not her Belarusian side?
Shushkevich: Do you desire to Belarusian opposition forces supported by the Russian Federation? Respectively with Russia, we have three percent of the population. This is a very weak voice. The voice of dissidents in the Soviet Union was also not heard Russian citizens. He was heard in some places abroad, where to send the "Doctor Zhivago", Solzhenitsyn’s work or samizdat. And we are also forwarded.
I was at this point in the U.S., where the Belarusian open educational center. There’s this voice sounds. And we have it also sounds. But if you just newspaper "Russian Belarus" goes more tha
n half a million copies and has one motto — nothing could be better Lukashenko, who says that we live better Yankees. And he just uneducated man, he does not know how all live.
Landsbergis: Dissidents or opposition — is essentially the same. Dissident who says frankly: "I do not agree." And explains why he sees things differently and wants to make it better. Opposition endure it on a political platform. But to say that there is no belief, there is no desire to spend some principles in life, and just interests of groups — this is incorrect.
These are the favorites of the opposition in Belarus, which destroyed what interests do they serve? Their interest was the fact that Belarus was the best, than that made in group dictator. They wish other Belarus. It may be interesting, but the enthusiasm has a color scheme benefits. And here we are talking about something else. The best, more solid feel people who have not been brought up to a certain subordination of serfdom. Which at any moment can be punished by depriving work when he says something that I do not like authority. It is practiced, such social terror. And if these pressures society lives, it can adapt and live in a slave state incandescence. But if there are people who do not like it, go for resistance to this evil, they should be respected.
Correspondent: If it was important to go for a compromise in solving municipal issue?
Landsbergis: Looking at what is called a compromise. I at one point was an argument on the phone with Washington, why Lithuania does not compromise with Gorbachev? I had to explain to the senator, which read on behalf of the President, that we are required to surrender. Namely this compromise. Lithuania offers a huge number of compromises, but in certain conditions, which do not run across in surrender. You can find some solutions that will drive your business forward. But you must not betray his own business.
Shushkevich: Compromise to go, if it leads to a better situation. After structural configurations that would be constructive to improve the situation is not always likely. After all, we have to work legitimately. We had a parliament, and I quite often find agreement among groups of deputies, but never changed the principles. So far to compromise, if the betrayal was a compromise, so can not go. But if not feasible design configuration and probable step to improve, then you need to find a compromise. And you need to find such an approach, if this was a big step. I did so many times. And I’m very sorry that I did not always understand our opposition representatives of the democratic forces. At the moment, we often analyze these situations. And practically approval Belarusian symbolism was a compromise with the communist structures which legitimately exist in our power. But betrayal — it’s not a compromise. Betrayal can not go.
Correspondent: Sovereign Vytautas why fundamentally veto of Russia and EU contacts?
Landsbergis: In fact, Lithuania pays its own account EU allies that something needs to learn from Russia, before starting a new contract. Our homeland — is a country, especially in the current government, which is not keeping his word and does not do contracts. And with Lithuania have many agreements that are not produced and not even answer.
Same with Evraraday. When our country entered into Evraradu in 1996, Our homeland has committed about what for Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Make compensation and repatriation of funds to citizens who were deported during the Soviet occupation of inland and their descendants who still live there.
Many years have passed, but our homeland penny has not tried to appoint for this purpose. She refers to this mocker, with derision. And when she had to, she took such obligations. And later she disparage and can say mocks Europeans. So Lithuania enjoyed occasion to recall this and about some specific questions. Atrocities such as Russian troops and maybe civilian control in 1991. Killing people in Vilnius, on the border with Belarus. Also no there is no cooperation, although there is a contract for mutual legal assistance. But if P does not like, it does not make treaties.
Correspondent: You reads nonpolitical term — RF hate. This Russian political intrigued. This is to ensure that there was no collapse of the empire …
Landsbergis: Neuzh that if the authorities will be fair, the empire disintegrate?
Correspondent: And what grounds you state that this power can be honest? She has a democratic culture?
Landsbergis: Then do not need to treat it as a party with whom to negotiate. This is such a test.
Correspondent: Why did some opposition politicians are certain negotiations with Russia?
Shushkevich: We have no other choice but to negotiate, to compromise in any matters. But I understand correctly sovereign Landsbergis. In this interpretation there is no other method for dealing with the Russian imperative hypocrisy than a position which tries to occupy Lithuania. Previously, such a position occupied Poland, because Russian authorities says one thing and does another. Listen you Putin, Medvedev, Lavrov — it is not the power of gold. And what acts? If in Belarus in gryazyuka trample freedom of speech, no free media, if they have no access to the media dissenters disk imaging, although they pay taxes and have a right, as much as possible to maintain the state bolshennom such power in Belarus, which violates all the rights and freedoms of people ?
Here Lithuania has a means of fighting. They they say this: we do not want the EU to have had affairs with krivodushnoy power. And I understand them. We have no such ability. We must find a more myagenkie methods of confrontation. Unfortunately, we did not find. And some of our so-called opposition went by treachery: they say they are the West that they are Western and Russian, they pro.
Correspondent: And you can call names?
ShushkevichI could, but I do not want to name names. I came to that position at the last Congress of the Communists. When I suggested that certain democratic procedures and decisions at the Congress, they spoke: you ruined the alliance, and you have to answer for it. This complete ignorance. And it’s about 200 people who were represented party, headed by Sergei Kalyakin.
Correspondent: Sovereign Vytautas, segodnyaschy power in Russia — this policy or the system?
LandsbergisThis system, which has made a group of people headed by Vladimir Putin.
Correspondent: In other words, you believe his policies.
Landsbergis: These are the type of politician. Anyone who manages the state, a politician, even if he was a king, dictator or somebody else. But he does state he is involved in politics. But if there is opposition in Belarus, which lead any negotiations with Russia, I do not know their reason. But one might be — it is a conversation with the owner. After all, there sits the owner of all of the Belarusian situation. And maybe it is worth checking the owner thinks. And maybe, if the owner ponder, it is profitable for Belarus was more democracy, then it will be a little more democracy. If the owner will find it currently profitable. Because the owner cares about world know.
Shushkevich: I quite agree, because Russian authorities for more beneficial that option when you can command one man, not a system. And to do so, that this man had unlimited power to forgive him and anti-human actions, it is a fact. After prohibit investigation into the disappearance of people joining-independent investigators — it means fear of, that it was a consequence. This supports our homeland. Tags: Our homeland, the opposition Shushkevich, EU, Landsbergis

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