Alexei Znatkevich: "A week back the clock on 10 years of imprisonment, was executed opposition activist Dmitry Liseenko last commando. Accused him that he kept drugs and fake money. My first question sovereign Shchukin — you attended this course, what you have got the memory — both were due to accusations? "
Valery Shchukin: "I was actually all proceedings except the first one. I can not say guilty or not Liseenko povinet. But I beheld, and heard no evidence no. He was charged that he distributed drugs and fake money. But when his arrested, neither with him, nor during a search of his apartment, he did not have found no resources and no drugs, no trace, no equipment for the production of the means of either drug. Yet it this accused. prosecution has not been confirmed, in my opinion, besides, there was a political subtext, as Liseenko — typical little man, he tried to vigorously participate in politics as he could. seems that the authorities have decided, taking into account its small and cramped vopytnasts links with political parties, to play on it. I think.
He was caught, charged, held almost 8 months in jail. Was a very tough blockade. No connection with the will was not. Letters to him did not reach, and he did not get a letter. In this situation, even experienced fighters will stay hard for, much less a man who has absolutely no experience. The last thing I managed to find out that through it tried to enter the politicians — at Christine Shatsikava and Valery Frolov. He plaintext was asked to give their compromising, say they pulled it, and then the tribunal would be condescending. Man showed courage, not sold soul to the devil, and naturally dealt with it for the full program there. 10 years yet no politician received "
Znatkevich: "The question for the emperor Lyaukovich — Dmitry Liseenko worked in the campaign of your favorite games Alexander Kozulin, in the press wrote about him as a member of the Social Democratic swinger. Either party organized any campaign in his defense?"
Lewkowicz: "I wish to point out that in fact it went in the press that Dmitri is a member of our party. But I inquired after the publication, or is in fact the case. Formally, it is not a member of our party, but he really participated in the campaign and worked in team Alexander Kozulin. Moreover, in June 2007, as I found out, he filed an application to join the party here in Minsk. Minsk His residence. But, as they say, the upcoming move statement had. We when the application is submitted, we need another recommendation of the 1st party member, this advice was not, and you can see that the process is braked as he lives in Vitebsk. One word to the city committee in its connection was lost. And he was not a member of our party. Party basically organizes events for all political prisoners and all members of the party who are being persecuted. Basically Vitebsk friends responded to this case, but, as they say, it’s not got such solidarity support. There are a number of circumstances.
One of them — it did not work in the system policy, there was no such close ties with the activists of the party, but, in my opinion, the prosecution Liseenko linked to its active work. As to the last before his arrest he spent in Vitebsk event in support of Alexander Kozulin. But, in my opinion, there still is one motive that he still a man who was connected with the secret police, tell them so. He is a man of that system. And the government here is very closely dogs when to stop immediately all those who have been connected with such forces, that they under no circumstances did not have relations with the opposition, as it is the people in general in a sense, seasoned, experienced organization. And, in my opinion, it is a statement of all — you can not contact with the opposition, to be an activist. In principle, the mode is not massively puts people in jail, he had no such abilities now, it’s not Russian Alliance, and he always chooses the iconic figure. "
Znatkevich: "Wishes to clarify, it was not at the party level decision on a campaign to protect Liseenko?"
Lewkowicz"Just was not. Again I will say that he is not a party member. But is not the case, the reason is different. I believe that there was no such protection, since he did not have the system, active communication with the representatives of the party, and not only our, and other parties. "
Znatkevich: "The issue of sovereign Shchukin. As you already states at the trial D.Liseenke revealed that the charges became only eyewitness, according to which Dmitry Tipo had psychotropic drugs and counterfeit bills euro. Samih physical evidence investigators did not find it. We’ve learned that opposition activists condemn in administrative cases on the basis of evidence the police. And from your experience, how often in such a harsh all criminal cases based only on the testimony of witnesses? "
Shchukin: "I wish to add that Liseenko to Vitebsk had affairs, he really came only once and held a rally, made graffiti" Freedom to Kazulin "and more he was not in Vitebsk. He really from Minsk. Now as for your question. Indeed Belarusian authorities realized that enough to judge for political reasons (a procession, rallies — it’s politically motivated, like Kozulin), and decided to move to another nuance. For example for Europe drugs, fake money — to stand up for it somehow creepy. To my chagrin, even our all human rights defenders and members of the party were concerned about — how to defend a man who blamed such terrible sins. Again, I emphasize that we already have in Belarus is … Half sentences, if not the process, the police provoked advance. Yeah, so was a police provocateur, tried to love him spinning. And he really acknowledged that bringing her something. But again it gave him a police officer. policeman gave, he brought a provocateur received. "
Znatkevich: "It means, on the court, he admitted that some of the witnesses gave him some illegal substances, and after it became clear that this witness did it commissioned police officers. Huh?"
Shchukin: "Yes, he defended the city attorney. I do not want to incriminate a lawyer, but it seems to me that he was promised that if he admits it will be better. Since, as the defendant admitted all — of acquittal can not be. But I wish to note that apart from the fact that for him there was nothing to find — there was no transfer of video footage was not even record. This provocateur, which was hung with zapisvayuchay equipment, it is such a debate, but he never said a word about the drugs or fake money. He borrowed money from her, and later returned, he young boy, etc.. Again I say, I do not know what was in fact, but I have not beheld any 1st confirmation. All recordings I listened to on the court. Neither 1st word that confirms guilt, I have not heard. "
Znatkevich"Sire, Lewkowicz, I ask you to comment on the expression of the sovereign Shchukin that the opposition does not want to get involved in this case, because there is a dirty accusation — drugs, fake money. And then the authorities have some advantages when use such charges because representatives of the opposition is not very solidarity with their colleagues when they blame on such criminal charges … "
Lewkowicz"I still think there is more played a factor, and that in fact the leaders of political parties and public associations favorites not many were aware of the case. Know, judging by so
me business without knowing the details, very hard. Essentially there was no such appeals from Dmitry or his close party activists. This process was more open. I think it’s more played a role. I think that in fact we close party members not familiar with it and close it do not know what kind of person , and what happened.
Znatkevich"The question for the emperor Shchukin — either you trust the Belarusian criminal courts?"
Shchukin"Personally, I do not believe the arbitrators, nor the police, anyone. Courts I am 180 days a year. My experience provided. Now for example judged Lyavinau. And referee goes to the conference room, and this room is in the office of the chairman of the court . What can we read? Yet I am on all vessels need to beat. Unfortunately, we were Liseenko unequal criteria. If I am being judged, the restaurant is full. while in his room were 5-6 people. Relatives and me. The fact that the judges (I wish them even) — powerless. Because if he does not do what the prosecutor said, he himself later put on handcuffs. Since blame bribe the referee trivial. Because they are afraid even to say something against . I do not know, that something somewhere referee decided it. If this is a criminal trial and he has broad resonance, there may be something else referee again in the best case it is a little easier that sentence that the prosecutor asks. We also practically no acquittals. Why all put to trial? complaining to put in the condition that he not acquitted. Since acquitted a man who sat in jail, later means a claim for defamation and the pros and compensation moral harm. "
Znatkevich: "And you, sire, Anatoly, feel can be trusted not to Belarusian courts in cases that consider political, but in criminal matters?"
Lewkowicz"The question suggests that we all came from Bolshevik totalitarianism. Now we live in a country where there is a personal totalitarianism, personal mode. Clearly, we do not live in a state of law and legal essence of what the country — just a Legitimate Home . How times have not been and are not. And because if read about arbitrators, reasonably Shchukin said — the judges are now not free to choose, as they are not law, they are vertikalschikom they serve face because of the law Nobody here can not read. Because in such a system read about fair tribunal is not necessary. Especially since, when it comes to the political process. If the economic state that somewhere besides fairly solved, although in general the system one. If the arbitrator not to serve the law, if the law does not serve the general manager of the country, when the law does not serve those who represent this control, which can be read as a fair tribunal "
Znatkevich: Lewkowicz, How to change the situation with confidence to the court, if for example your party comes to power? "
Lewkowicz"Please change the political system in the country. Basically, of course, is our dream …"
Znatkevich: "What changed directly, the courts have used the trust?"
Lewkowicz: "We need to make so that the law was above all. Necessary to build a legal government. At the last congress of democratic forces strategy developed in this direction, developed a small Constitution, which specifies certain steps that must be done to change this system. If we do not change the system, say again, read about the law, the rule of law does not have to. "
Znatkevich: "The Emperor Shchukin, if you depended on legal reform in Belarus, which would have changed before you, that the courts can be trusted?"
Shchukin: "I wish to add that Lewkowicz said that even if it does not matter which party comes to power, it is still not change the psychology of the judge. Necessary to change all the codes to change what gives ambiguous interpretation. Now, let’s say, it is written in the Constitution that every citizen has its own representative, and in the Administrative Code do not, and all the judges than guided — not by the Constitution, Code, although it should be the opposite. Because these codes need to change and remove all, that there was supremacy of the Constitution, then something is . "
Tags: Lewkowicz, Shchukin, Liseenko tribunal