We bring you the first part of the transmission.
What was the explosion that occurred in Minsk during the celebration days of the republic? This is a terrorist attack? Hooliganism? Something else? Which version you seem more possible?
Kalinkina: I quickly tell which version seems less possible. I think that hooliganism — what they say now representatives of the Ministry — this is indescribable version. Just as to collect, as it turns out, two explosive devices from the nuts and bolts must not be a bully, you need to do it consciously, knowing that you’re all talking about it in the multi-million mass, and may be many victims of your actions. Because it is at least as hooliganism. This act of terrorism. And who is it beneficial — we will discuss in the course of applets.
Drakakhrust: Vitaly, how do you think it was? It came during an official prazdnichka brain — it anyway challenge authority.
Silitski: And that’s been produced in one day after an interview Alexander Lukashenko, where he pointed out that the opposition — maybe because it does not pay attention to the West — go to constructive action. That exposes kanspiralyagichnuyu theory about the opposition enough funny state.
This, of course, was a terrorist attack, I agree, I will pay attention to only one event. See: To assemble a bomb, you need a lot of experience, but once it was collected so that the amount of destruction and casualties were minimal. All nuts were at the bottom of the device — they just went to the floor. In-2, was not nails that could at times to increment the explosive force — in other words, someone specially made bomb for information effect, and not in order to was the largest number of victims.
Drakakhrust: Since not everyone can read this interview with Alexander Lukashenko "Komsomolskaya Pravda", I quote: "What disturbs the fact that our opposition to the West is very tired — especially the Yankees. Those already they say plainly be the case — will be funds. What does this mean? First, street performances, demonstrations, and if pogroms and explosions — then general comments will be pleased. "
In addition, it should be recalled that in 2006, the other day the election then KGB chief Stepan Sukharenko described the scenario that took place on July 4 this year. According to him, he says, the opposition plan: gather mass, the mass of an explosion, and begin to destabilize. Or incurred, or staged? Sergei Kalyakin, say, directly blames the power that it has organized a sin. Sergei Nikolaichuk and which version seems more possible for you?
Nikolaichuk: "You see, I hunt to be a little unusual. Hooliganism is either a terrorist attack — can be read when the theme will be known atrocities. We do not know them, do not know the person who did it. Maybe if he is found, he will say that its just pleased this situation, and it can be classified as ordinary hooliganism. Maybe there are other motives, not necessarily political, but may, for example, religious.
About what is impossible to collect the device without special knowledge — remember 2005, Vitebsk, the same device with the same bolts and nuts. Annotation to assemble such devices can be found on the Web. Make it so that was predictable effect, that went nuts and bolts at the bottom of the explosion — it need to be a very high-class. And I suppose. that there is such a clear calculation was not.
And I do not give this sample impressed political color. Me in such a striking feature of society — replaced in order to find the offender, we are always looking for motivated, we cling to some said. But the explosions favorite reads of any country. Explosion in weight — is the worst in at least some country, in Egypt, in the U.S., in Russia or Belarus. And our own favorite in such statements stereotyped.
I do not exclude that it turns out that Vitebsk and Minsk explosions are somehow connected. And it’s very bad for society. After all suffer from explosions are ordinary people, not politicians. And these victims, about people. how horrible these nuts and bolts, and we need to think. According to witnesses, police, wounded by the same bolts and nuts, pulled out of these people. First there was concern for the people. On their first and need to think, not about whether it was a terrorist attack or not. "
Kalinkina: "I wish to ask Alexander why he believes that the explosions in Vitebsk were bullying?"
Nikolaichuk: "I do not think so"
Kalinkina: "They have not been investigated. If they were investigated, so that at least one social explosion in Belarus was investigated, then we could state that there is now such freaks. But we have nothing investigated: no explosion at a pipeline explosion or at the courthouse in Minsk or explosions in Vitebsk, no shelling Russian embassy.
And the last three actions took place the other day referendum, when Lukashenko canceled its own limit on the number of presidential terms. And no one found guilty solely for informational space appeared a liberation army — some "unfrozen" nationalists. So why do not they have found why not presented to the public? Why scaring people radicalism opposition, so that she can make some explosions in the country, every time they say about this particular special services? Because, Alexander, and is the topic in the realm of politics. "
Nikolaichuk: "I do not agree with you, Svetlana. I did not read that it was in Vitebsk hooliganism. I read that the cases were very similar, as in Vitebsk and Minsk were almost similar explosive devices. These explosions are unprofitable power under any circumstances. Even if at the moment to read the evidence of witnesses, they all end with the words: "The more we on these municipal prazdnichkom never go."
I can not imagine myself to the manager, who himself planned it for some effect. This contrast makes distrust of power structures. People will think the same now that the police and the KGB can not guarantee their safety. Still negative go to the government. It seems to me that of all the political motives should not have to blow up the bomb, a lot of negativity. There are more effective means for political PR. "
Drakakhrust: "Svetlana, I believe in the words of Alexander there is at least the one thing that the principle of" who is profitable "from time to time leads to a deadlock, because really the Belarusian authorities every year all explained that Belarus security stability which, they say, in Russia terror, terror in America, and we all relaxed. And then this happens, then happens to the main municipal prazdnichek, a few steps from the president. This is a very strong impact on this type of stability. Even if cynically argue, it is worth this loss order to get the moral reason to kill the opposition? So the opposition is not so powerful to get this base with such a loss. "
Kalinkina: "We did not see you with another version — the struggle between the power of the clan. This explosion could be" the bomb "under the career, for example, the Ministry of Internal Affairs Vladimir Naumov chief, who was responsible for security at the celebration. While we do not have complete disk imaging, while we have expert advice of professionals, we can consider all of these versions. Vit
ali I agree that it was made quite skillfully as, indeed, explosive devices, which make fans as we beheld on the experience of, usually either do not work, or bring a lot of victims. Because it did specialist.
But I was alarming acts of officials. I do not understand why the concert was not stopped. If they were convinced that the area is no longer explosive devices, then their actions are understandable, and the concert can last. But if their exact belief it was not, they had to complete this action and bring people out because there was a threat to their life smooth.
I also do not understand the act presidential security service, because according to all the instructions they have no right to allow the head of state to a place where there is any danger to his life. And we beheld directly turnaround that Alexander Lukashenko has been to this place. This, in my opinion, may also indicate that there was a belief that is more on the area near the stela was nothing works.
Now we can talk with you in many ways, that was in the mind of the man who organized the explosion. But I think how soon we’ll know who it was, and will depend on the answer to the question, who planned the bombing. If, as in all previous cases, special services will be a long time to find and no one went out and brought, I, unfortunately, will conclude that they were behind the blast. "
Drakakhrust"Vitali, Alexander had already read about the trap approach on the principle of" who Lucrative? "You may recall that when there were explosions in Moscow in 1999, many states that it is profitable to Putin to start a war in Chechnya. When there were explosions in New York in 2001, many states that it is profitable for Bush to start a war with Iraq. Do you agree with the fact that from time to time, this approach leads to a dead end? Do not you think that in the Belarusian political clash occurs dyabalizatsyya opponent, any party believes that those others are willing to do anything well, respectively, and is ? "
Silitski"I do not quite agree with you. Finding who profitably — this is the usual step, if there is shortage of information. Regarding dyabalizatsyi, I slightly disagree, but it is outside the context of these events. Strongly disagree with Svetlana for the termination of the concert . in weight with many thousands of people it could cause panic and dimensions of the victims would have been much more than even if I worked there another bomb.
It seems to me that what was happening, the police behaved with dignity, the people rescued, and it showed. Vorachivayas to approach "who profitably," I will make a world that is less favorable the explosion itself and the opposition to Alexander Lukashenko. It is surprising. This does not answer the question of who did it, but, at least, you can cut off those who should not know about. More can be said that it’s not only in dyabalizatsyi opponent, and that we have no culture customary public inquiry customary public control. In such criteria no matter what extraordinary event will be overgrown with rumors and theories komplota. We are not used to such accidents. We measured life, we are used to stability, but communication between the state and society in such situations do not. This — the price the content of a closed society. Expect rumors. "
Drakakhrust"Alexander, to the fact that you uttered, I will allow for a small comment. Indeed, the leaders of the various states they say a lot about the explosions, but not enough of them who says that these explosions make opposition. George Bush, for all his dislike of the Democratic Party, did not blame him for the bombings. "
Nikolaichuk"Realize, every country has its evil. For Bush is the Taliban," Al-Qaeda. "We have no such universally recognized nationwide opponents. We have a very sluggish opposition. The fact that from time to time is inadequate, they say no longer only ordinary people, and many political analysts.
I’d made an initiative to assist the Belarusian journalists find this offender. Perhaps our task is not to develop mechanisms of cooperation with the government, and to collect version, structure them and make their own contribution to the fact that this case dasledvalasya.
As regards the conduct of special services after the explosion, it is more than adequate. I fully agree that the concert under any circumstances it was impossible to stop, even if the entire field would be mined. If stopped, began to panic and uncontrollable weight would run on these packages and the number of victims would have grown. People would be compressed against each other and would be second Nyamiha.
Kalinkina"Alexander, and could not remember whether it’s for you" Operation Human Shield "? If all people can take and stand against the threat? I’m not saying that it was necessary to declare: "Here explosive device. Costs." It was necessary to take people cooperated on sectors in hand carved, as is done everywhere, if there is any danger. "
Nikolaichuk"I at one point was sitting in the theater, there’s something burned out and people just withdrawn. But when brought the first sector, the third sector is excited that something had happened and began to put pressure on other sectors. And create crush, although there were only three bulbs burned out.
Kalinkina"And best of all would have exploded, but would not bother with all this, right?"
Nikolaichuk"In my opinion, better to die measured."
Drakakhrust"Alexander, I continued to help plan your journalists this investigation. You drew an analogy with the Vitebsk explosions. But it was in Vitebsk at the bus stop, not confined to a certain date, and there was a very clear effect on a demo account. It was made specifically as a show. And this created for organizers atrocities certain difficulties. Great we have special services or bad, but I believe that during the celebration they were especially vigilant. And to do it in Minsk at the celebration, it was necessary to put more effort than to do it in Vitebsk.
And yet it was manufactured. What mental traits do you see in this emphatic nuance sin? "
Nikolaichuk"Vitebsk could be a training ground. People looked that they would not have found, they have not disclosed. Minsk elected Why? Because of this prazdnichek once a year most states, it is the most ideologically principled day in the life of our country.
Why could not prevent? Well that just warn, it was necessary to put around the place collecting metalashukalniki as at the airport, and all passed through them. But this is unrealistic, not ever. I believe that may occur in the celebration will be fenced really be adopted special security measures. But now no one could imagine for themselves. that someone will come up with the idea to do this.
The man who did it, and probably knew immediately visited these mart. There may be a feeling of omnipotence — I got laid, and now the whole country is on the ears.
I think it’s one person and Vitebsk him very tightly woven. "
Kalinkina"I’d do not focus on the fact that it’s just a demonstration. This could be because many people, as they say, pressed to the wall. Their lack the ability to express their own protest, that he was heard to achieve justice. Then such constructive steps — blast self-immolation, the hunger strike until the last are the only ".
Drakakhrust"Some also explained the motives of those who 11 September 2001 in New York plunged planes on towers" twins ".
Kalinkina: "Yes. From time to time people are driven in such conditions, when they enter the corridor from which can not get out. Should be some mechanism that people have left open the possibility to
find the truth and to protest. When all abrubaetstsa Belarus, the it radicalize those who are not satisfied with what is happening in the country. "
Nikolaichuk"Self-immolation and explosions occur in all countries and I would have said that lack the ability to speak, put a deadlock frail people. A person who wishes to speak, can express their own protest by different means. All depends on the people. Go and a symbol of protest undermine all — well, it’s not a protest. "
Silitski: "I do not agree with both of my interlocutors. Frail people do not protest, and get used to the situation. As for despair, the September 11, 2001 showed that these terrorists had enough respectable social position. So this theory of despair I can not accept."