December 8, 1993, I met with Ales Adamovich in Moscow, at the Institute of problems of cinema, which he headed.
At 5:00 it was already dark. Adamovich one expected at his desk in his own beloved sweater. In the study, which was once half of workplace employees (was restored buildings), there was no one.
I remembered how his invitation was there 5 years before the first meeting of the Board of the anti-Stalinist society "Memorial". Were sitting at the table elected by popular vote Yuri Karjakin, Yevgeny Yevtushenko, Yuri Afanasiev, Andrei Sakharov expected. Failed to come Vasil Bykov, Alexander Solzhenitsyn sent a telegram. Tell me about Kurapaty Adamovich pushed me and I talked about our bitter Calvary about "Martyrology of Belarus," plans to build a monument to the victims …
Prior to the interview room Adamovich Ming scored Vasil Bykov interested news from the court against Svetlana Aleksievich that tried for the book "Zinc boys." Then I turned on the recorder.
Alexander Lukashuk"Ales Mikhailovich, the last time you were in Belarus?"
Ales Adamovich"In Belarus, I was long since almost a year I was in the clinic, as it is sad. True, this clinic I learned the story. And there’s chapter" From under the dropper. "There is no parallel, but what- bitter drama that is — with a book "From under the interior." Tale I sent to Belarus, and he almost that whole year was sick, only recently returned to work. "
Lukashuk"Tale" Vixi "appeared in the" flame ", maybe it’s your most personally tragic thing … Have you attended this year in Belarus to the same in the journal" Belarus ", which published your stories. Which language you wrote their latest work? "
Adamovich"I consider myself a Russian and Belarusian writer. To be so confident Belarusian prose writer, you need to be a man from the village. Our language is absolutely out of the village, and the language that we had in Minsk, at the Institute, and in my Wilderness, where he was a valyapyuk Polish-Russian-Belarusian, created and makes me some uncertainty in the sense of linguistic wealth.
I like a man who is held with 2 hands on the railing, and hold on for the Russian language, and Belarus. It lasts well — and in the Russian language writing in Belarusian.
Living in Belarus, I often printed in Moscow. We were in such criteria, when there were, since you wrote the Belarusian language in Moscow could not be printed earlier than in Belarus. So soon as I showed "The Punisher" in the Belarusian language, or fell in the Belarusian language in Belarus, I would them then, of course, buried, ruined, and I would not have come out at all in print. And it is also dictated dvayakasts language.
And now, when I’m out of necessity, and of any other circumstances, I live in Moscow than in Minsk, I do not address that, and I eagerly write in Belarusian.
"Belarus" took my novel "Mute", "Flame" took "Vixi". And in the "flame" in the Belarusian language came earlier than in the "Friendship of Peoples".
Lukashuk"In the story« Vixi "you many states remember, talked about his own mother. This attitude is a man of your age to the mother is not quite ordinary. Why is it you basically now? "
Adamovich"Well, perhaps, a sense of guilt that we receive at the end of life to those who did not say anything to you, did not add, not able to express, failed to thank really. For each mother has a mother, and for my me — the story itself felt that it was for the people.
And most importantly, I suddenly felt that after sixty years — at the moment I only became aware of his mother.
When I wrote "War under the roofs," "sons go to fight," my attention somehow did not stop here on anything. Mom was a member of an underground, partisan, and I have never — I currently only realized — never felt her hatred for those with whom she struggled. Fought like millions of people, as hundreds of thousands in Belarus.
Germans came near some people who are threatening to you and your family liquidation. It seemed you could not resist, not feeling hate them. And we, I remember that feeling only lived.
And I suddenly felt and now realized, remembering everything, all the coolest moments of our military adysei that everything she did — and she was doing things for her family and the danger is tremendous — all this has not entered into any feelings of hatred. "
Lukashuk"What is hatred for the man?"
Adamovich"Hatred — is, first, the injustice. As you begin human unbearable, you refuse him in all those qualities which are inherent to think for yourself and those around you. The enemies — these are the people you hate, and so refuses to them in all human qualities that are characteristic for you. And we lived, fought so hard.
When I wrote my first book, I was in our enemies — policemen, Germans, Mayor, Vlasov — not beheld those human characteristics that recognize within themselves.
And my mother — this is probably the popular feeling is not it a characteristic, it’s just inherent in the people, our ladies, a peasant woman — she did not deny them that. Yes, they are on the other side, they are our enemies, they are terrible for us humans, they wish to destroy us, and we do — but that this hatred was not.
Why is it so important for me? You remember our literary life in Minsk and then, in what hellish cauldron pot we cooked in the mutual hatred of our opponents have literary, literary enemies! ..
In my "Vixi" the only real item. I at one point, sat down on a bus in Minsk, the smallness of people was, and suddenly I felt — someone to push me into this trolley with not just unusual force, and with the power of hatred. The first time I felt hatred as something physical. I turned and saw all only of the writer.
Then I felt uneasy. Not that he would do something to me, and — what we reincarnated? What makes us so razvyalo it so I can not stand? And, apparently, I have some feelings for him are not human …
And now, when this man died long ago (and we die fast), at the moment you think, wait a minute wait a minute, that’s when we’ll meet you there, curious, and there we will move our literary, political and other feelings? And here I think of my mother, who even in the most terrible, 1942-43 years, participating in the resistance, this disease does not hurt.
For me, in this sense it is not just a mom. This is such a moral lesson at the moment I particularly want. "
Lukashuk"M. Ales, judging from strasnastsi, I think your pacifism, was dictated not one love …"
Adamovich"If you talk about it, I can not begin here with what. I am very proud of my Belarus that it renounced nuclear weapons and set an example to all States — mean and Russia, and Ukraine, and Kazakhstan, and others who now seek out this death for themselves and others.
Belarus was the only state, one people who had this gun and was able to hold it, hold it in your hands to play this terrible thing — and refused.
I do not think it look all our politicians do not think it is the politicians and look right and left, and constructive, and Democrats. I had disputes, even with people close to me views which read as follows: "Let him pay us!" Yet, Belarus makes it very heartily, abandoning this death, which, of course, for all the death, for the world and for our country.
And I think that it comes from — we really love the word mind — from Belarus, folk. And not only from the Chernobyl memory, but there is something in us … Or was it? Maybe we lose it, as manifested so cool …
When I think about people’s reactions to everything that is happening now, and in Russia and Belarus, and Ukraine, in the former Russian Union, I think it is regrettable that not all the time really scared of this gun. Not a
ll truly realized the danger, which was very real. Not all back and understand from what we were saved from what had gone.
If it all mean, remember, I think, would not be here this cry, moan, crying: "Behold, destroyed everything, everything was destroyed, was worse than it was, and it is unclear how to get out of it, and we need vorachivatsya ago ", etc., etc..
If you look at 10-15, 20 years ahead, and if 100, two hundred, three hundred, 500, much more, this destruction — it was salvation. In another escape not only we, but the whole world could not.
This system was ready to destroy all, that only live another, paisnavats. We now know that preparing a bunker near Moscow on 10’s km, another city for 10’s of thousands of nomenclature. They were ready there like rats live five or ten or thirty years, and substituting their own country and their own people under nuclear attack, if only exist as one in which they existed.
I used to be very insulted Ivan Antonovich, he was there in Minsk at the moment, he was a big man in Moscow … "
Lukashuk"He and at the moment, M. Ales," majestic. "When in Minsk to call U.S. Secretary of State Warren Christopher, then Kebich spoke to him, and was sitting next to Antonovich. So that man was as" big ", and remained … "
Adamovich"I say, here he was at Palazkovu" big ", where he at Kebich — it means that this person is still necessary. Indicates that not enough has changed."
Lukashuk"You see, on television showed him next to the prime minister, and the photo in the newspaper zaretushavali was not."
Adamovich"Well, this is interesting. I very insulted once wrote in" Literary Gazette "about how he called me to the CC, and later we met with him when she came edition of the magazine" Music Life ", he considered necessary is the second time I repeat — that here I am, as a pacifist, bad really understand how to look at everything.
And, you know, with such bright eyes I said, "Well, after all, all die, but even if the remains of 10 people, most importantly, that they were Russian people."
Ivan later stated that he did not read as such, well, I prove it can not. I can only say in his defense that it was not his idea. I think it was the military doctrine, which is at the level of the capital of the Central Committee, the Central Committee of Minsk, at various military installations was in our country.
Well as you can, keeping in mind that a victory in war can not be how to educate people in the loyalty system that is ready nuclear weapon to defend its existence? Only in this way could be: the war has ruined everything, but most importantly, to the people who remain under the rubble, were Russian people.
Well fell system ruins of communism lie strangled Russian people, the Belarusian people, Ukrainian and other peoples. So care in all our yesterday’s manageable to people under these ruins were Russian people. Very paradoxically, that’s how it happens. Very many, feeling for yourself these ruins, when the severity of stone yesterday communism does not give up, do not realize that their crush. They think that their strangling something new.
Yes nothing new their scents! No democracy is not pressing them. Strangles them all the same socialism! All the same communism, the same nomenclature. These ruins and strangled.
And Ivan was a prophet: they also brought millions of people in the spirit, and that many under the rubble of communism are the same Russian people.
And this is a huge disaster. Reforms are difficult and in Russia and Ukraine, and Belarus is almost not go. And not only because the leaders have remained unchanged. I think we ourselves under these ruins still remain socialism yesterday Russian people. "
Lukashuk"M. Ales, remember, came the first time in Moscow" Steel Lady "Margaret Thatcher, and was such an exponential transmission when put against her 3-fighting Russian publicists.
The dispute was about the atomic bomb, and Thatcher said that only through a nuclear weapons war Europe did not know the last almost 50 years. How do you think the force is crucial for the preservation of peace and the victory of good? "
Adamovich"You know, it seems wrong Thatcher, as well as work out. They Used nuclear bomb, not afraid of danger from the East — we had terrible missiles at 10, hundreds of megaton, one such missile could kill UK together with Thatcher and all the islands .
How would the correctness on their side, and then you can say that Antonovich in his justly reasoned, and Brezhnev, and all those that bomb built its policy. But this is only because — I do not know that the world’s population and helped out people. Might be completely different, we would be with you here is not reasoned, would not were sitting there, and there would be no memory of the Thatcher about anyone.
It is not only at the level of Thatcher. When Andrei Sakharov came from bitter, I’m so lucky to be with Vladimir Sinelnikova him. Sugar is not Thatcher and not someone else.
And then I Sakharov behaved as irreparable pacifist. I began to ask: Andrei Dmitrievich, tell you Apengeymera complex lives? You feel guilty for being in the history of the hydrogen bomb will dad? He said in-1’s, I’m not alone, the team did, but it was necessary — and the same logic that Thatcher.
I second time came with this conversation, on the other hand. Andrei says: no. I say: here you become a human rights activist, began to clash with Khrushchev, with our system, to achieve an open society, in a word, afraid that in the wrong hands gave this terrible weapon. He — stands on its own anyway.
Then I said: Andrei Dmitrievich, now let’s imagine, though everything has exploded, and we fly — my ashes flies, and your next. And my ashes in your asks Andrei Dmitrievich, and now you tell me what was right and what is true, it is necessary that hour to do to keep the world? He said that I do not know yet because we have not yet felt.
Later, when I read his memoirs and stuff, I also realized that this complex Apengeymera lived in it was. That he became truly heroic fighter, one against the whole system, still came from the fact that he felt responsible for what he did.
We all criticize the KGB, NKVD, GPU — all true, but the only thing you can give thanks for is the nyaznishchanyya archives, where at least some documents remained.
Here they are once overheard speech Academician Landau. He in 1956 already stated that our socialist system or peacefully descend from the historical arena, will certainly be a nuclear war. And no one — Landau, no sugar, no Solzhenitsyn — not seriously believe that it can peacefully leave the historical arena.
As it happened — it’s a great happiness, a large fortune, so that destruction of which so much is poured tears — just pay for what people get rid of land. "
This interview was made on the air in the first days of January 1994. January 26 hearts Ales Adamovich braked. In such news do not believe, if you do not believe in his death.
December 8, 1993, I met with Ales Adamovich in Moscow, at the Institute of problems of cinema, which he headed.