A comparison of the t64 t80 and t72 (from personal experience)

I was constantly criticized for Tipo biased attitude towards Ukrainian tanks and tank builders. I assure you, I do not have any desire to argue with the followers of Kharkiv. I wish only the 1st — that the Ukrainian armored propaganda does not grind people’s brains. I wish and work to ensure that people knew about what was and what is, in fact. Did not get better with legends and legends. The reader can trust or not to trust my words — this is his right. Unlike some, I do not insist on its own point of view. But there are facts which no arguing, there are witnesses, and specific members — to listen to their opinion definitely worth it.

On the days of the editors Web Site «courage» received a letter from the officer-tanker, in which he expounds his own experience of «dialogue» with the tanks of the T-64, T-72 and T-80. His story without any revisions, and configurations we give to the «courage» in this blog.

It has long been looking for controversy between the adherents of the «Ukrainian» and Russian tank design! To prove a little forthcoming, silent talk about for yourself. I started to study at the Ulyanovsk Guards Tank School (research foundation tank — the T-72, optional — T-80), but due to its closing graduated from the Kazan Tank School (basic — T-80, optional — T-64), I have a diploma with a difference. So with the disputed mark is very thorough. He served on the T-72 as the platoon commander, company commander, battalion chief of staff in one of the armored regiments of the Volga-Urals Military neighborhood. He took part in the first Chechen campaign was a platoon and company commander.

And now to the point. Chassis of the T-64 — very moody and, so to speak, neekspluatabelnaya. At turns in first gear at high speeds and languid soil (wet arable land, a tank gauge) indescribably the highest risk of becoming a free track. At high speeds, if a bit weakened caterpillar, and turns on the larger gear sight to fly tracks with eversion fenders remain forever in the memory! And if the track came off, the towing tank on the ground and languid sand on rollers completely impossible — plate rollers get tied up rockers!

Casualties torsion shafts do not read, perhaps, just lazy. What are proud of our Ukrainian opponents — it is not clear!

A comparison of the t64 t80 and t72 (from personal experience)


Read of not so long ago a saying: «fishnet track and chassis of the T-64.» Absurd! Openwork patterns can be ladies and stockings! Chassis tank should be reliability and maintainability! And the point! Frankly, that strikes maniacal commitment Kharkiv flawed in principle chassis. That of its type is used only for Ukrainian tanks — the descendants of the first T-64. If she was really that bad, as they say about it, then these things «genius» creature probably would have found a use for themselves somewhere else in the world. Apart from the T-64 tank chassis of the same type was imposed by the TCP and the number of engineering machinery, which I believe crime, taking into account their operating conditions.

In the nine years of service in intense exploitation — just barbaric — T-72 tanks in the mountains and in the plains, and operational use of machinery in the Chechen Republic, I never watched the flying caterpillar in «semdesyatdvoyki»! Naturally, undermining the rule of the tank on the PT-mine and other combat damage. I do not remember I also replaced torsion bars. Towing tank without tracks generally not cause problems. To «kill» the chassis of T-72 should be exceptional «dolboyunoshey»! Even the rather weak track tension does not lead to «razobutiyu» cars, but only to overshoot the drive wheel on the caterpillar.

Among the negative aspects can only remember not very comfortable shoe connection with your finger instead earrings (so-called «binoculars»), as the T-80 and T-64, but it is faster, purely a matter of taste and personal assessment.

A comparison of the t64 t80 and t72 (from personal experience)


Met also claims that rubber tires on road wheels are very unreliable and often fail. Complete nonsense! The vast majority of cars going off after a complete renovation laid path, went on rollers with the same bandages with which they arrived fresh from the factory. Disruption and destruction of the bandages came solely as a result of external impact. After the introduction of tracks from the T-80, when the bandages rollers roll on the treadmill rubber tracks, undercarriage T-72 was the «eternal»!

The same can be said for the chassis of the T-80. The main problem here was telescopic spring. But they are quite simply and rapidly changing. In general, of course, of the 3 types of running more beloved in the army virtually all indicators — the T-80 chassis. No wonder its elements (track) ran over to the T-90 and T-72 modernized.

Now about the engine — the «heart» of the machine. The engine T-64 (does not matter what — 5TD, 5TDF, 6TD and so on.) Has only one advantage — the dimensional decent power and ALL! This offset plus a huge number of disadvantages. First up: the ejection cooling system! After the 1st round in the summer heat by Tankodrom had to «cool» T-64. The use of such a system for the languid machines on the example of the T-64, has shown the futility. Very low reliability of the start motor cool winter forced the officers of the educational process to come to the service for a long time before class to have time to make all the cars for most of these classes.

According to the lubrication system. If you just look at the stern of exploiting the T-64, you can see that it is all virtually flooded with oil. Oil flow rate was superior to all appointed by forcing «get out» fuel service chiefs and commanders of units. In general, the motor carefully about the shortcomings of T-64 and a lot has already been written without me.

A comparison of the t64 t80 and t72 (from personal experience)


Now, in contrast, few of the engines of the T-72. In the summer of 1996 during a regimental tactical exercises battle shooting on «Tank Regiment in the attack» from the 1st of the tanks of my company, as a result of damage to the radiator at the turn of the transition to the attack, drove out all the water. Tank continued to make puzzle to merit the coming tasks abroad shelf (in the criteria it was, for a moment, about 25 km). In other words, the car — «dry», in the heat, in challenging the criteria for excessive speed — was held on May 20 kilometers before the «begin to knock!»

Of problems, of course, at first — it’s the complexity of the substitution engine. At one point, when he was a platoon commander substitution «dvigunov» I, 2-driver-mechanics and repetitive aid zampoteha Battalion, involving ARV-1, has taken almost daily.

Motor power V-84 for tank weighing 46-48 tons fully adequate.

But of all the engines given my heart GTD-1250. I know that this will cause a flurry of negative, but I’m out of all problems, which will direct my attention only recognize the excessive fuel consumption. All others: the difficulty cleaning the air, the highest temperature of the exhaust and the other on the latest gas turbines resolved. But the main problem of the turbine — its price. I think that the premise of removal from service and non-development of tanks with GTE in Russia is the poverty of our country. In the operation of CCD — the song! Ease of start-up, the inability to overheating, ease of substitution, «omnivorous.» In general, the decision has long been made, and if chelyabintsev will make a new powerful and reliable diesel «dvigunov,» I will be glad! Discussions about X-shaped cursor go since the time when I was studying. Although it should be noted, the Germans manage to create beautiful MTU diesel engines on the traditional V-shaped pattern.

A comparison of the t64 t80 and t72 (from personal experience)


Boxes on all tanks, in principle, almost similar. Board boxes have long been out of date … It is a pity that at the time of Kharkov initially put them in a tank T-64, and then the solution was transferred to T-72 and T-80. The rest of the world followed the path of development gidromehanichekoy box, unlike our unfortunate reduction in price in return for money …

There is no hesitation that promising tanks and languid machines should stand hydro box. I am glad that in Russia it is understood, and besides BMP-3 is equipped with GMP, promising standards armored vehicles will also have a similar box. All sorts of exotic diesel-electric, hybrid and other box is definitely not for tanks!

Firepower. It is surprising, but let us return to the chassis: it is the imperfection in the T-64 leads to shaking and rocking the tank. If, due to a more advanced LMS, the T-64B (BV and so on. Modifications) wins the T-72B (M), at a similar MSA «shestdesyatchetverki» with T-80B (BV) accuracy on the move noticeably worse than the first.

Loading mechanism (MOH) T-64 and T-80 is, in principle, monotonous, and you can associate it only with the automatic loader (AZ) of the T-72. The advantage of only one thing — the capacity of the rotary transporter 28 shots against 22. But this is offset by a more comfortable placement of shots in non-mechanized installation. The usual scheme of placement of ammunition in T-72 during combat operations in the Republic of Chechen woman was filling and stacking conveyor AZ shots per tank-rack in front of the fighting compartment divider MTO where they just pull a gun and charged, or filled in AZ. MOH asks recurring monitoring and adjustments. AZ has no adjustments, all manufactured at the plant once and for all. MZ different unreliability and uncomfortable Cable releases traps, unnecessary operations such as shifting of used pallet shot in the blank tape, which later will still have to get by hand, increasing the loading time of ammunition. In addition, this leads to unnecessary surgery of the highest gas content of the crew compartment under intense fire. AZ simply removes the pan from the crew compartment through a hatch in the tower. The need to boot the Ministry of Health have the right shot in the tray and close the tape a special key, which is very often lost in a shaking machine, greatly increases load time of ammunition. In AZ fixing shot in the cassette is automatically and does not require training of personnel «tricks» mounting shells.

A comparison of the t64 t80 and t72 (from personal experience)


Often our Ukrainian friends forgets that loading MOH twice AZ. In addition, the vertical projection of standing «on end» of charges in the MOH twice lying AZ charges that breaking through the hull armor increases the possibility of fire in the fighting compartment. MH electrohydraulic drive that apart from the difficulties of service (top-up water) also impairs the fire hazard. In electronic drive AZ such defects do not.

Apart from anything else in the tanks T-64 and T-80 due to the nature assembly, if necessary, is virtually impossible to get out of the driver’s compartment in the fighting compartment, which in some cases cost the life of the driver-mechanic. The traditional situation for the T-72: after breaking through the stern of the tower shell or grenade up damaging the hydraulic drive vertical guidance guns, gun barrel rests on the hatch mehvoda. In the tower there is a fire, and before that as ignite propellant charges in the worst case is 30 seconds, the best is — up to 15-20 minutes (there were times when only the charred powder charges without fire!). During this time kutsee mehvody can be fully climb out of the tank through the combat compartment, even more so, that the gun is lowered very down, and the breech is resting on the roof of the tower and place it in — plenty! At the T-64 and T-80 in fact there is no such ability — only on a theoretical level! Eject the cassette with 3-4 shots and climb through the vacant place without the help of other mehvody can not! This is a fact confirmed by blood. Quite the latest example: the exercises conducted in the Ukraine, tank T-64 nose stuck in the creek, a driver is in the «in combat». The water came into the car is not fast, because the hatch was closed. Mehvody but has not been able to leave the office of management and, unfortunately, died … arrogance, disdain Ukrainian designers to clearly be the best solutions on the T-72, despite the remnants of authority, who were still at the Kharkov KB, not allowed to enter the AZ Tagil standard on tanks T-80UD in deciding its commercial production in 1980 …

On protection of tanks. I have more confidence as a practitioner examples of life, if the theoretical calculations. And here, as you know, there is nothing to associate: T-64 role in the battle did not take the (quite apart from sporadic fighting in Transnistria), but the T-72 and T-80 to war!

A comparison of the t64 t80 and t72 (from personal experience)


On all 3 tanks used above and is used to this day armor type «Contact». These machines are still many in service and in our army, and in the Ukraine and around the world. The only difference is the layout of boxes on the different versions.

Here supporters are trying to send a Ukrainian tank design flaws into advantages. Let me remind you that the mounting boxes with elements of DZ on tanks T-64BV on the sides of the body is carried on a power rack along the rubber-s creens, and the T-72 and T-80 — specifically on these screens. This is said to increase the rigidity of the structure and does not lead to a separation of the DMZ. It is a complete nonsense! When operating the tanks in Chechnya, particularly due to the flexibility of screens managed to keep intact side screens in contact with their disabilities. I assure you that for the bulk of the mass of 40 tons and with a capacity for 700 — 800 (and more than) HP there is no difference, turn it flexible rubber-and-canvas screen or «watery» trusses of thin parts. Here the elasticity — an advantage, not junk. In addition, the repair of rubber-screens even easier.

Of the parts of DZ on the tower, apparently, is normally 80BV T and T-64BV — here Tagiltsev went the way of simplification. Yet, the level of protection as the T-72 and T-80 lacked for doing the fighting in conflicts similar Chechen. I repeat, this is a false dynamic protection «Contact». On more recent versions — «Contact-V», «The Relic» and Ukrainian swatches — I’ll write another time.

Of course, one can argue endlessly about the benefits or those of other designs, but it will be a dispute about a woman whose lover is better — personal and purely sensory evaluation. Impartially and soberly assessing, whose military machine Better: Russian T-72 and T-80 or T-64 Ukrainian, it must be recognized that the T-72 more adapted to the conditions in which it operated and waged war.

Recently, I want to tell carefully about the combat use of the T-72 and T-80 in various armed conflicts, also on the cases and examples, witness and participant of which was me personally. And at this point I would like to write some common words.

I dare say that the vast majority of the losses of our tanks in all the conflicts in the territory of the former USSR have occurred as a result of incorrect implementation, feeble-trained crews and mismanagement operations units. The loss of production in the Russian tanks in the conflict area countries other than the above circumstances, it is conditioned by the introduction of samples of old times against more modern opponents, the lack of interaction with other branches of the military, wrong planning of actions performed by the command of the troops.

First operation against Iraq in 1990-91 («Desert Storm») occurred when I was a student of the school. Thanks to my teachers in the departments of strategy, operations, weapons and firing at the department of military vehicles — they are conveyed to us the nuances of fighting, pointed to the strong and feeble of all combatants on both sides of the front, coupled with our assorted techniques and methods of warfare, methods of office management and contingency planning, the device features assorted weapons and military equipment, as the saying goes, «piping hot»! I note that the panic over our tanks appear, usually only in people who are not specifically associated with the Armed Forces.

I understand that what I have written, for the tanks have long been the armament and tank building currently has stepped far forward, and I am a self-publishing seems to be some «behind the times». But all of that is being implemented at the moment (note — in fact all) was the most experienced swatches and, at least, in the concepts even during my studies at school, ie More than 20 years ago back. Something new for me is going to be unhappy, «Armata». We are waiting to …

The idea of standardized platforms in the air very long time. But only now, when all the preconditions have to find a certain kind of machines of the future, the opportunity to begin designing and manufacturing machines of the latest generation. It may be great that we missed a step saturation troops machines of the T-80UD, «to 187», the T-95. And after all, common view, requiring little from the Ministry of Defence is to adopt a T-90AM (SM), the complete development of the T-95 and quickly accept it, then bring to a series of «object 640» — «Black Eagle», then use the Ukrainians experience with their tank «Hold» (in my opinion — the citadel of inertia, stagnation and Ukrainian chauvinism!), then just do not copy the Yankees M1A2SEP! Why, dear comrades! This is all the tanks (some of them, of course, are great) yesterday and the real. At the moment, there is a beautiful opportunity to give Army a fundamentally latest car, the car of the future! She lay in a large modernization potential for years to come!

Unfortunately, the specter of the «big» wars ever more clearly, and to further the intensity and power of the conflicts around the world will only increase. And of, unfortunately, can not escape their role in the … We still have not so not much time to saturate the troops with modern standards of military equipment and training of troops to its use.

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