Stumbled on one interview, I wanted to share with you. In a sense, it is also suited to the site — these people have made.
Why spies like scientists
Scout-illegal Andrey Bezrukov, «If you behave like James Bond, you have enough for half a day.»
Donald Heathfield owned a consulting company in the United States, was educated at Harvard and raised two children with his wife. He was quite successful American citizen. Hardly anyone of his friends and colleagues could have imagined that Donald Heathfield real name is Andrey Bezrukov and he is the head of the Russian reconnaissance. Bezrukov worked abroad under cover from the end of the last century and during that time did not utter a single word in Russian. Two years ago he issued a traitor, after which he returned to Russia.
Andrey Bezrukov Born in Kansk Krasnoyarsk Territory. He studied at the Tomsk State University. Together with his wife, Elena Vavilova, more than twenty years was in hiding, doing intelligence work. In 2000 he graduated from the Harvard School of Public Administration, John F. Kennedy with a Masters degree. In the summer of 2010, was arrested in the United States and with the other defendants in the spy scandal, including Anna Chapman, was sent home in exchange for four Russian citizens convicted of spying for the U.S. and the UK. Now working for the company «Rosneft».
«You can not use the native language even at home …»
For starters will specify what to call what you do in the United States. Spying?
This is the same than the U.S. security services in Russia. You know, there’s a difference in concepts. English ‘spying’ translates as spying, but in Russian language spy has two meanings: «spy» and «scout». Can be understood in different ways. Not for nothing in the Soviet Union, its called good word «scout» and enemies — «spies.»
They say that for all the work you have not uttered a word in Russian. Is that true?
It is true. This feature of the illegal work. You can not use the native language even at home, all the while being under strict self-control. Although after a few years it becomes quite natural. Even dreams are dreams in other languages. My wife and I now speak mainly in English and in French.
And your wife to work with you? She, too, was under the cover?
Yes, my wife Helen also a professional scout, and we worked together abroad from the first to the last day.
You have lived a long time in the country, actually working against it, right?
You know, intelligence is not determined by those against whom you work. Exploration is defined by those for whom you work. «Working against anyone» — it can not be a reference, the tasks may change. As a scout you work to benefit the country. The offense can be against someone, and exploration activities are as patriotic character.
And then you perceive the people around, if not as enemies?
As the main object of study. It is a country that you should know is the people you want to understand in order to help guide the country to make the right decision.
That is a scout — it’s something like a scientist undercover?
Yes, very often raises questions of knowledge, understanding of the issues. I would even say this: in order to win, we need to understand in order to understand the need to love. That is, you have to love the country in which you work. The presence of a person who can in spite of misinformation on the site to understand what is going to be a positive stabilizing factor. In order to prepare for and protect themselves, sometimes quite critical nuggets of information. I would say that intelligence is essentially a defensive measure.
You could fall in love with the United States?
I will not say that I love this country. Culturally, I lived in a more interesting world than the United States. But I certainly respect the Americans. I love many of the features of the American people, such as optimism, resourcefulness, willingness to necessary changes, ability to fairly and quickly recognize and correct their mistakes.
Where do you like to live: after the exchange in Russia or the United States?
Frankly, I’m more interested now live in Russia. First, it’s my culture. But most importantly, in Russia, I have witnessed the historic moment — the process of establishing a new country. The process is difficult, painful, but extremely interesting, especially for me, whose job was to understand what is really happening and what are the forces behind it.
«I’m an expert on the formation of the future»
You can elaborate? You have worked in the U.S. since 1999, and before that?
I can not comment on it.
What kind of business you have had in America?
I am a specialist in strategic forecasting, to shape the future. My research papers and patents relate generally to this field. I have worked with leading corporations and government agencies in several countries, including the United States. But as a consultant I have worked in other areas: managing change in corporations, to organize the fight for major contracts and so on.
Money, a business that should be conducted — it’s a whole life abroad …
Yes, of course. In general, if you look from a professional point of view, when a man in my situation is abroad, he must completely and build a new life in material terms and in terms of family. The man actually begins life anew. You can say, you feel like a different person. My wife and I flew away on a business trip with a suitcase. I had to re-get an education, find a job, build a business, and not one. Without assistance and with minimal means — do you remember what the situation was in the country at the time. And while watching our main thing — to carry out the tasks.
How did you get into Harvard University?
At Harvard, I received a master’s degree of public administration. When you receive a detailed passed the qualifying procedure, like other candidates, including tests, motivational letters recommendations. I had already had a diploma and MBA and a degree in the global economy, and the experience of development and business management. That is, the degree of preparation of the other candidates I was no different.
«Exploration — this is the most romantic profession»
Scout needs acting talent?
I think so.
And they themselves were never going to be an actor?
No. Just when the actor transforms a certain time, and then returns to his life, then there is a gradual transformation, but a deeper, comprehensive. You actually become a man of another nation, another language, but not other ideas.
It happened that the psychological fatigue, if it was, reached a critical level, so that you were ready to give up everything?
No, it did not happen, because I really loved my job. I feel very happy man. I’m in the shower was and still am a romantic. Exploration — this is the most romantic profession. My colleagues and associates — those whom I know personally and whom heard — people are amazing, talented, imaginative, often h umanly complex. These are people striking purity. Their fates are often difficult on a personal level, it is possible to write the book. And that is a pity, and tragically, the best of them, we often learn only after they die, and if ever … you know, working in an irregular situation clears people communion of something higher — the bustle just do not have time.
What qualities are important for a scout? What is the principal?
I think patriotism. This and only this is the whole meaning of the work. Money can not be a sense of exploration. Only the devotee ideas people can do their own thing, knowing that the rest of life can spend in jail. No material benefits do not justify it.
Work like a spy James Bond films? What it is: routine or still a real risk?
I will say this: intelligence work is not built for it failed. That is, the risk is clear, and decisions are made so as to minimize this risk. Exploration — this is not an adventurous adventure. If you behave like Bond, you have enough for half a day, the maximum for the day. Even if we imagine that there is a magic safe in which lie all the secrets, tomorrow half of them will become obsolete and useless. Upper class intelligence — is to understand what your opponent will think tomorrow, not what he was thinking yesterday.
«My family tree goes back to the times of Ermak»
What does it mean for you, the word «patriotism»?
I think patriotism — understanding your place in the world as a part of Russia. These are my friends, my parents, this is my family tree that goes back to the times of Ermak, when my praprapraroditeli came to Siberia. For me, forget it — it means being left with nothing. To me as a historian of the first, Russian, education is especially close to the idea of a great and tragic history of my country, those fractures through which it has passed, its endless, painful search of itself between the East and the West.
It turns out that such a national spark is there for everyone. But is not it just a dressing for cold political struggle?
No. So, let’s talk about the national idea, not even touching the political struggle. The national idea — is to realize what in the world is your country, that we as a nation want to be able to accept, and what we can not. If we have a commonality and understanding of who we are, where we are going, what principles underlie the — that’s what brings people together, is what is called a national idea. The ideas that have been used to unite us, more are not. They are gone. Russia is now in the process of formation of new ideas. The political struggle over how is the future of Russia — is evidence of the ongoing process of crystallization of the national idea, the element of creation.
How would you characterize the current period in the history of Russia?
I think it is very interesting stage, when we are involved in the formation of a new country. This is a painful period of time that many countries have passed. The main thing — to themselves it does not spoil. Not destabilize the country, and to find common ground and decide which way to grow. We do not have consensus, but as a nation we need to give an answer that does not turn the boat in which all sit.
«We purposely identified children in the French school»
Your children are now 18 and 22. They were born abroad, right?
Yes, our children were born and raised abroad. Grew up there like normal children, of course, not knowing a word in Russian.
They lived there all his life. Perhaps they have more American?
The fact that in them before coming to Russia was nothing Russian — that’s a fact, but the typical American, I would not call them too. Knowing how American cultural melting pot melts all a common model that we purposely identified children to a French school. So they kept the European, open, broad minded instead of simplistic clichés and empty political correctness. And, of course, tried, so they can have as many opportunities to see and compare different countries, by the conclusions. It is obvious that living in another country, you can not join the Russian values. But you can instill if not love, because they do not know the country, then at least respect.
As children experienced what happened to you, in particular the arrest?
We were arrested during the celebration of the birth of our oldest son. A few minutes the kids thought it was just drawing — a crowd of people in dark suits on black cars … Of course, for them it was a shock. But out of this shock helps that as parents we are constantly kept them good spiritual contact, open dialogue in the family, mutual understanding and trust. After our arrest, they flew to Russia, at our request, not knowing who they meet and what to expect … When, after the exchange, we finally met with them in Russia, and they learned the truth about our profession, the first month we spent the night in conversation about life and history. I think in the end they began to understand why we made certain choices in life. Despite all the difficulties of adaptation in adulthood, in Russia they have something that has never happened before — grandparents, family with its long history, which they love.
And if you offer them some sort of ideology?
No, we were just trying to bring them decent, honest people, open to new ideas, open to the world. That they are humanists in the long run.
Is emerging as their fate? It turned out they integrate into Russian society?
They are in the process of integration, which is now very difficult. Russian language, of course, is not the easiest to learn. Them for two years managed to travel around the country, and was most impressed by their nature produced, especially Siberia. Do sons their plans, which are not connected with politics or intelligence. Older are more interested in the business, especially the financial sector.
«He has until the end of life, and so it will be quite nasty …»
Your group uncovered after you betrayed by one of the officers of the Foreign Intelligence Service. What would you say to him, if met?
Well, I think he’s in any case, this type Pot, would try to meet with me …
What if? Just imagine.
You know, I would not say anything to him. There is no need. In my opinion, it is the end of life, and so it will be quite lousy. Betrayal, as an ulcer, if it is in you, she’ll eat it. You can not save some emotional balance in your life when you realize that someone has betrayed or killed. And his father was a hero of the Soviet Union. He betrayed not only himself — he killed the memory of their parents. Whatever money he paid no, I agree with Vladimir Putin, who said his life is difficult to envy. He or sopetsya, or just longing eat: wake up every morning and remember what you did. You know, the CIA and FBI treachery Poteeva very happy, but by the attitude of the traitors, as elsewhere, the ugly. After two years in the U.S., he is probably already felt. He is tir ed of them. He no longer needed them. Like a squeezed lemon.
What are his motives were?
I think this is the person for whom the homeland and intelligence were minor things, which means that a small change. Add to that the unsatisfied ambitions and a taste for money, and he is ready to sacrifice principles for a price.
Have you encountered with the scouts that were overbought or been recruited by?
No, I have not come across. I have not heard about any of this professional, and even more so about the illegals, which can be had been recruited by. My impression about the traitor Poteeva was just what he is weak as a professional. In the exploration was a random person, and here is the result.
When you opened, trying to outbid, to recruit?
No. And from Poteeva traitor, and from their own observations, they knew it was useless. To me and to my wife, FBI agents after his arrest treated as professionals by professionals — stressed respect.
Can you talk a little more about what happened after you opened? How did you feel at that moment?
Immediately after the arrest remember a state of total domestic mobilization, even the purely physical. It was as if all the old life, all the plans suddenly gone on the back burner to some fog. The main concern was the desire to understand the cause of the failure and find a way to contact his wife and children. Was the realization that the old life is over and begins another stage — the stage of the struggle over the new rules, which may last for many years. This state is fully prepared every minute of that is going on for ten days, until it became clear that the high-level negotiations for our release.
«The American politicians Russia occupies a marginal position»
As you are an expert, a historian who knows the country people see America?
U.S. is in a difficult period when a superpower becomes normal strong country. Maybe a leader in certain areas but not unconditional. In the U.S., it is perceived quite painful. There are people who ask the question of what the United States will take place in the world. Interestingly, many of these people — military intelligence, a very educated layer that can really assess the situation of the country. These offer the U.S. military to take a position that focuses more on cooperation in solving global problems, not only the country but also the world, such as the slowing of economic growth, instead of supporting its position by force wherever it may be. But they are in the minority. This dialogue about the future of America is just beginning, but we need to keep an eye on him, as it influences and Russia, how they see us — as the enemy or, more realistically, as one of the strongest players in a multipolar world.
And how Americans perceive Russia?
In general in the American media and American politicians Russia occupies a marginal position. After the Soviet Union is gone, they really only care about the theme of our military capability, which is still a risk. I do not think that American politicians are interested in some other aspect. It all comes down to the dies: Russia is imperfect, does not play by the rules, is undemocratic. Russia seems to them so weak and uninteresting, not worthy of a real partnership dialogue. It’s like the relationship between human beings: to be respected by others, we must first respect themselves.
You were born in one country, worked in the one that competed with the first, but returned in the third …
The fact that I left the country, which was called the Soviet Union and returned to the one that is called Russia, does not affect me. For me, this is one country. My country.